As long as it stays a fantasy or they choose willing partners who consent, then no, I don't think we can automatically judge men or women from having fantasies where they're the rapist. I mean - I might personally be uncomfortable with that, and if, say, I'm dating a guy with those fantasies I'm not obligated to stick around, but I don't think that get to automatically judge other people's fantasies just because it squicks us, you know?
Yeah that's more or less my thoughts on the subject. I think fantasy and eroticization is one way humans handle complex or emotionally loaded subjects, especially issues of power, consent, and control. And even though I like dubcon, the kind I like best isn't just straight up overpowering of whoever is being dubiously fucked. I like my dubious power dynamics with a little ambiguity, not just straight up "she's submitting to him / being overpowered or taken by him".
The key difference between straight men and lesbians and slash (from what I understand) is that often men like lesbians because they can mentally insert themselves between the two; which is not what's happening with slash, where writers often seem to want to divest the proceeding from the female body. So... I don't think it fuctions in the same way that girl-on-girl works for a guy.
Well, "women who are into slash" is just as diverse a group as "women who have rape/dubcon fantasies" so I think some women must be into slash for similar reasons as guys are into girl-on-girl. Certainly not all slash contains misogyny. Sidetrack: I think that the trend of MFM fiction from online romance publishers might be a better analogy to men & their girl-on-girl porn - the MM is there for the enjoyment of the woman / female readers, the F is a placeholder where the female reader can insert herself between the two men. And these romances may not be awesome and feminist in their portrayal of every female character ever, but they certainly aren't female-hating - whatever their flaws may be, they are female-centric. I think it's one of the most interesting fiction trends in a long time.
Anyway, back to pure slash: but yeah, my experiences with slash have been more negative than positive, so I agree that many slash writers "seem to want to divest the proceeding from the female body". Might be immaturity - many fanfic writers are young. Might be self-hatred, or at least a distaste for other women that's troubling (like those women who would rather hang out with guys because "other women are so boring"). Even in its least troubling form, it's pretty alien to me - I like guyslash, but only if the dynamic is especially compelling or sexy; I can't just smush two guys together because "it's so hot!" (not that I don't like me some crack slash, but even then it's because of how hot I imagine the dynamic could be if it happened, not however hot the thrusting of Cock A into Ass B could be). But then, I'm just not all that turned on by imagining guy-on-guy sex, because it's not something I can relate to directly, having neither a cock or a prostate. And I'm into women. So I like having at least one woman present in my romance.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Almost an essay part too
Yeah that's more or less my thoughts on the subject. I think fantasy and eroticization is one way humans handle complex or emotionally loaded subjects, especially issues of power, consent, and control. And even though I like dubcon, the kind I like best isn't just straight up overpowering of whoever is being dubiously fucked. I like my dubious power dynamics with a little ambiguity, not just straight up "she's submitting to him / being overpowered or taken by him".
The key difference between straight men and lesbians and slash (from what I understand) is that often men like lesbians because they can mentally insert themselves between the two; which is not what's happening with slash, where writers often seem to want to divest the proceeding from the female body. So... I don't think it fuctions in the same way that girl-on-girl works for a guy.
Well, "women who are into slash" is just as diverse a group as "women who have rape/dubcon fantasies" so I think some women must be into slash for similar reasons as guys are into girl-on-girl. Certainly not all slash contains misogyny. Sidetrack: I think that the trend of MFM fiction from online romance publishers might be a better analogy to men & their girl-on-girl porn - the MM is there for the enjoyment of the woman / female readers, the F is a placeholder where the female reader can insert herself between the two men. And these romances may not be awesome and feminist in their portrayal of every female character ever, but they certainly aren't female-hating - whatever their flaws may be, they are female-centric. I think it's one of the most interesting fiction trends in a long time.
Anyway, back to pure slash: but yeah, my experiences with slash have been more negative than positive, so I agree that many slash writers "seem to want to divest the proceeding from the female body". Might be immaturity - many fanfic writers are young. Might be self-hatred, or at least a distaste for other women that's troubling (like those women who would rather hang out with guys because "other women are so boring"). Even in its least troubling form, it's pretty alien to me - I like guyslash, but only if the dynamic is especially compelling or sexy; I can't just smush two guys together because "it's so hot!" (not that I don't like me some crack slash, but even then it's because of how hot I imagine the dynamic could be if it happened, not however hot the thrusting of Cock A into Ass B could be). But then, I'm just not all that turned on by imagining guy-on-guy sex, because it's not something I can relate to directly, having neither a cock or a prostate. And I'm into women. So I like having at least one woman present in my romance.