How We Quit The Forest

[redbrunja]

So, on atla_unspoiled, there was a poster talking about how, typically, Zutara shippers ship Suki/Sokka, and Kataang shippers ship Toph/Sokka. (Which I think is true, based on my totally unscientific experiences). She then suggested that this was because of the shippers looking for 'viability.' (Which doesn't make sense to me.) I think it's more likely the that similarity in character interactions and relationship dynamics is what makes it more likely for a Zutara shipper to like Suki/Sokka, and for a Kataanger to like Toph/Sokka.

(And of course, there all the various permutations of who ships what as a primary ship, and I KNOW that there are people who like Suki/Sokka and Kataang, and Zutara shippers who like Toph/Sokka, to name just two.)

Your thoughts?

Comments

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Thank you.

[manonlechat.livejournal.com]

She then suggested that this was because of the shippers looking for 'viability.'

It's comments like that that keep me keeping my distance from that comm! ;)

In any case, I fall into the category of Zutara-shipper who prefers Tokka (though I'm also a Suki fan and like Suki/Sokka). I don't really want to see mutual romantic Tokka in the current Avatar timeframe anyway.

I think a good portion of Zutara fans ship Sukka because it leaves Toph free for Aang.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

If reciprocated Tokka happens in canon, or Suki dies, I am driving down to California and smacking Mike & Bryan bloody with metal fans.

I think a good portion of Zutara fans ship Sukka because it leaves Toph free for Aang

So you think part of it's not wanting to leave Aang out in the cold?

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Hm. While I favour Suki/Sokka (because Suki is pretty damn awesome, and Toph is more likely to make a positive appearance in a Suki/Sokka fic than Suki is to in a Toph/Sokka fic, among other things), I'm fine with either.

Or maybe a love triangle. Hm. Triad? Toph did kiss Suki, after all!

...Because Sokka has good taste.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

While I favour Suki/Sokka (because Suki is pretty damn awesome, and Toph is more likely to make a positive appearance in a Suki/Sokka fic than Suki is to in a Toph/Sokka fic, among other things)

Oh, WORD. I used to like Toph/Sokka, but now I loath just about everything where it's reciprocated, simply because I have seen Suki bashed too fucking many times in Tokka fics.

And I love the idea of Suki/Toph. So much.

[mzminola.livejournal.com]

I like Suki/Sokka, and if given a choice, prefer Kataang (it would be such a fun sound effect!)

The dynamics thing makes sense. Though in these cases it seems to be primarily the pairing components' ages, less about personalities. While Sokka and Aang have some goofball similarities, Toph and Katara are pretty different.
I guess Suki/Sokka being compared to Katara/Zuko makes sense, as the guys are dorks with parental issues and the girls are strong, sensible leaders.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's not like, 'oh my god, identical ships' but I do think there are enough similarities that it's not unheard of someone who likes one would like the other.

[pikabot]

I...can't really agree? Sokka/Suki and Toph/Sokka are both very different ships from Zuko/Katara and Katara/Aang. The character dynamics are...I guess I can sort of see where the Sokka/Suki and Katara/Zuko angle is coming from, but Toph/Sokka and Aang/Katara share pretty much exactly one point of similarity, and that's that it's a younger person crushing on an older person in a sort of shy manner.

[nephthysmoon.livejournal.com]

I think that Katara/Zuko shippers tend to also be Sokka/Suki shippers because they want Aang to have SOMEONE, and Toph is the closest in age to him (also being 12). The Katara/Aang shippers that also ship Toph/Sokka tend to be the ones that like to keep things on the 'same side' of the line (good vs evil, etc).

I'm an atypical shipper, since I like Katara/Zuko, Toph/Sokka and Aang/Ty Lee - but also Sokka/Ty Lee and Aang/Toph. As long as the main pairing is Zuko/Katara and Suki is not with Sokka, I'm pretty much game with any other pairing you can concoct. For some reason, Suki has never been a favored character for me - from the first episode she appeared in. I thought she was cute, and pretty awesome, but not someone I really wanted to see more of. Kind of like Haru, I guess. He was fun, but I don't have much use for him.

I guess it's more that I dislike the idea of a strong woman like Suki accepting the fact that though he was an inspiration to her, Sokka didn't get too far away from where he'd met her before he fell in love with another girl - and then rejected her (at least at first) for it. She's too strong for that, in my mind.

[iapetusneume.livejournal.com]

(Just so you know, I still haven't seen The Boiling Rock. No spoilers, please!)

You know, based on how I usually react to series, I should be a rabid Zuko/Katara shipper. I'm not, though. I might might read it post-series. But right now, I just don't know! Something about it bothers me.

I love Katara/Aang (yes, in that order), but I have issues going out and shipping them because Aang is still so young. I know you've had discussions about this before, and I'm also not fond of "aging up". My solution is that I like the concept and am rooting for it eventually but they can take their sweet time with it. And I don't look for fic for them.

Point? I'm a huge fan of Katara/Aang but I'm an equally huge fan of Suki/Sokka. I might even like Suki/Sokka more. I can't ship Toph with anyone because... I'm not sure why! Same with Zuko. But I want them both to be happy (eventually), and I'm not about to stick them together because it's convenient.

In the end, I think I'd go for fic of Iroh simply being Iroh. Because that's what I want from more of, really.

I'm just posting to let you know I'm one of the weird ones. ;)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Exactly! I totally knew there were people who shipped in 'odd' combinations!

[sureasdawn.livejournal.com]

I've always preferred Toph/Sokka to Sokka/Suki in the long term and I'm a hardcore Zutara fan. *shrug*

That's one thing I hate about the stigma against OC's is that if there's an odd numbered group of characters in a fandom, someone always gets the short end, because OMG PAIRINGS!

If I'm going to ship, I typically ship characters that have an interesting dynamic, one with some conflict and energy to it. Say like Zutara or Tokka.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

I really dislike the whole OC stigma. Plus, even if you DON'T have an odd number of characters, sometimes fics where EVERYONE is in a relationship really make me go, '....okay, I don't think it works like that.)

[solace-adrift.livejournal.com]

I mostly agree with you. Aang/Katara and Zuko/Katara shippers tend to be very different with the things they look for in ships, and Toph/Sokka and Sokka/Suki tend to be at least aesthetically similar. Added to that though is I think a certain unwillingness on Zuko/Katara shippers to pair anyone younger with anyone more than a few years older them because of a perceived squicky factor, and because it doesn’t really fall into their aesthetic sense of what is romantic. Also, because they like to dole Toph out to Aang as a conciliation prize.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Also, because they like to dole Toph out to Aang as a conciliation prize.

I do this the other way. Aang is Toph's conciliation prize for not getting Sokka. and a poor second best it is too.

[oyster-district.livejournal.com]

I think it's more likely the that similarity in character interactions and relationship dynamics is what makes it more likely for a Zutara shipper to like Suki/Sokka, and for a Kataanger to like Toph/Sokka.

You hit the nail on the head with that one.

...Then again, my Toph is gay, so maybe I have no place to comment.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I read Toph as gay in OV, and it was like being hit with a lightning bolt. I was like.. '..oh. That makes so much sense.'

[scriva.livejournal.com]

Your Toph was my favorite character in Ozai's Revenge. She was awesome and still the most in character. (But perception of characters is subjective. ^^)

[oyster-district.livejournal.com]

Haha, me too. It was hard coming up with someone who could possibly best Toph in the Department of Kickassery, but then I thought "What if Ursa were gay?" and worked from there.

<---CRAZY, I KNOW.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Yeah, I really like to compliment and contrast characters in relationships.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

And I... really don't get the idea of shipping A and B so that C and D are free to go with each other. When did it become wrong to ship a character with multiple people? Who cares, really, if your pairings overlap? XD

I don't, but then I do understand the desire to not leave a character you like, but don't ship, out in the cold. Thus, why I really enjoy Toph/Aang.

[tobu-ishi.livejournal.com]

*laughs* I ship on the basis of an odd mixture of canon interaction, perceived character dynamics, and "Wouldn't it be awesome if...?" Zuko/Katara stole my heart away, as soon as I started seriously thinking about shipping in Avatar, but I also consider myself a shipper for Sokka/Suki, Toph/Teo, Iroh/Wu...I dabble in Haru/Katara, Jet/Katara, Zuko/Song, extremely dysfunctional Toph/Aang, a bit of Azula/Foamy...

*shrugs* I guess I've just always seen Aang's affection for Katara as a smaller love he'll someday have to subsume into a greater, more expansive love for the entire world to take his place as Avatar reigning. He's a lil Buddha; I have trouble shipping that with anything.

(And Toph and Sokka just don't click for me, mostly because I try to imagine them together in a romantic sense and get mental images of battling mountain goats. In my head, Sokka thinks of her as the little brother he never had, and Toph will get over it because she's not the whine-and-pine type, and they are destined to grow up into the best pair of stalwart drinking buddies to ever come wobbling home in a trail of knock-down drag-out bar-brawl debris and liquor fumes, arms slung around each others' shoulders, merrily warbling the dirtiest songs they know.)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

(And Toph and Sokka just don't click for me, mostly because I try to imagine them together in a romantic sense and get mental images of battling mountain goats. In my head, Sokka thinks of her as the little brother he never had, and Toph will get over it because she's not the whine-and-pine type, and they are destined to grow up into the best pair of stalwart drinking buddies to ever come wobbling home in a trail of knock-down drag-out bar-brawl debris and liquor fumes, arms slung around each others' shoulders, merrily warbling the dirtiest songs they know.)

For me, that fantastic image is not nessecarily exclusive of a romantic relationship. However, I have lost my ability to imagine Sokka not adoring Suki, so...

[scriva.livejournal.com]

I just stumbled over your entry, and I hope you don't mind that I reply to your post.

I think it's more likely the that similarity in character interactions and relationship dynamics is what makes it more likely for a Zutara shipper to like Suki/Sokka, and for a Kataanger to like Toph/Sokka.

I generally agree with you. I think that "shipping" has a lot to do with the dynamics one likes in pairings. I don't really "ship" in Avatar, except maybe Zuko/Mai, because that is the only canon pairings for which I actively search out fics or fanart, but I like all the pairings in their stories as they are presented in the show and their different dynamics. Anyway, in the show, I prefer Suki/Sokka much over Toph/Sokka, not only because of their dynamic, which is funny, but also because I feel that Sokka should not be paired with a powerful bender, because he will always feel inadequate in some ways. I also love the friendship between Toph and Sokka, and I wouldn't want it to change into romance.

Regarding the dynamics, I can see that fanon Katara/Zuko has much similarity to canon Suki/Sokka, but very often, the fanon dynamic of Katara and Zuko is in conflict with my perception of their characters.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I generally agree with you. I think that "shipping" has a lot to do with the dynamics one likes in pairings.

*nods*

It's all about character interaction, when you get right down to it.

but also because I feel that Sokka should not be paired with a powerful bender, because he will always feel inadequate in some ways.

Actually one thing that makes me said about Avatar, is that just the way the characters turned out, I don't ship any bender/nonbender pairings (one of the many reasons I wished I liked Mai/Zuko). I hate it when couples kind of get segregated by ablilities, you know? That said, I ship Sokka/Suki over Sokka/Toph for many reasons, but the one that applies to what I just said is that they really learn from each other, and I don't think that 'making each other better' would have worked if they hadn't been on the same playing field when they first met.