She's Standing In The Ashes At The End Of The World

[redbrunja]

It's been a long time darling, but it's good to have you back:

Okay, 2 minutes in and we have one of the most awesome Zutara moments ever. Seriously, Mike & Bryan - he saves her from falling rocks, lies on top of her for a bit with his hand curled around her waist, and they stark at each other for a bit, and you don't know why we ship them?

I think that moment right there was my second favorite bit of the episode.

Even mom, the Maiko shipper, was holding my hand and squeeing through that scene.

Azula is awesome. I really like her when she's being badass and not totally winning, and that shot of her with her hair flowing was fantastic.

I wish the animators would have lingered more on that scene where Katara catches Zuko.

Okay, Suki and Sokka? Totally fucking. I mean, totally. And I love a girl who sneaks into her lovah's tent.

Bloodbending? For the motherfucking win!

That was my favorite scene - Katara bloodbending with no angst about it, Zuko's look of 'holy fuck she's even more powerful than I thought', and then Zuko's utter disbelief that the Fire Nation officer could ever forget about anyone he hurt. Because I think that's something Zuko has always had - even if you're on the opposite side, you damn well remember who you hurt.

And I love love love the repeated images of Katara looking up just like Hama looked up. You guys rock, Avatar animators.

Katara and Zuko ninja-ing around was everything Stormbenders promised us it would be.

And have to say, I'm a little ambiguous about the resolution of the episode - it was only saved by the fact that Katara didn't forgive that man - she just didn't kill him.

I really like Aang's 'oh fuck' epiphany. That said, Avatar State hello? Is he completely not responsible for anything he did while under that? I mean, he's already killed people.

Also, I've been avoiding spoilery icons posts, but if anyone has good icon recs for just this episode I'd be interested.

Comments

[ryanitenebrae.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, definitely. Katara was strong in this episode, and the way they dealt with her character was perfect.

I have to agree with you about the two favorite scenes, to be honest. And that shot of Azula with her hair fanning out is awesome. She's losing her 'civilized' edge. With her sanity, it's like she's..pardon the geekiness, but going from Lawful Evil, to Chaotic.

If that made sense.

[turtleyurtle1.livejournal.com]

DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS REFERENCE.

omg. Yeah, that's the EXACT thing I thought. Chaotic Evil Azula is amazing.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

That makes a lot of sense. And I'm really starting to like Azula now that she's suffering a bit - she no longer has this perfect villain life, and i honestly think that it makes her badassness shine more.

[tobu-ishi.livejournal.com]

The MINUTE Azula started to talk, I thought, "O shi, she's finally snapped." Her voice has gone crazy-growly and she's lost her delicate edge of snark. Highly alarming development, though she looks incredible with her hair down (and disturbingly similar to her mother).

NINJAS NINJAS NINJAS NINJAS NINJAS :DDDDD pretty much sums up my opinion of that. Also, "We weren't behind the bush" was the best kind of vaguely Pythonesque failed badassery.

I'm glad Katara chose not to rip the guy apart in cold blood. I think it won her respect points with Zuko, too. She's not a psycho crazy like his sister.

(Also, as long as we're talking Hama comparisons, how about Jet comparisons? Not just Sokka bringing it up, but later, with the attacking defenseless (albeit formerly murderous, in this case) old men.)

Miscellany: So much gorgeous animation. So many gorgeous shots. Sleeping Teo maxed out my seeving quotient in the first ten seconds. ROCKS FALL, ZUTARA LIVES. Zuko's capybara!face when confronted with seductive half-dressed Sokka. I totally called bloodbending without a full moon--or was it full? I should go back and watch again...

SO MUCH LOVE. SO. MUCH. LOVE. :D

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

The MINUTE Azula started to talk, I thought, "O shi, she's finally snapped." Her voice has gone crazy-growly and she's lost her delicate edge of snark. Highly alarming development, though she looks incredible with her hair down (and disturbingly similar to her mother)

You know, I wouldn't describe Azula has having snapped - she's not no longer winning so effortlessly, and I love it. She's kind of in the same boat Zuko was in season one, and I think it's doing fabulous things for how I view her character.

And I think the moon WAS full, but I had NO DOUBT that Katara could bloodbend without it.

[obsessive0514.livejournal.com]

Fuck yes. This episode was amazing. My older brother even said "Wow, she's pretty hardcore."

I think the ending itself was ambiguous, which I loved. I don't know why, though.

I kinda got the feeling Sokka and Suki hadn't started yet. But that was definately the plan. For some reason, that's the impression I got, which gives me more giggles. This was anbother scene that surprised my brother.

As for icons, I'm working on some right now. It'll probably end up being just TSR, except one TBR. So far, though, I haven't seen any icon posts for this episode.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I think the ending itself was ambiguous, which I loved. I don't know why, though.


Because it was realistic and fit in with the tone of the show? Because there is no way that Nick would let their heroine commit murder, but Mike and Bryan aren't going to give us some trite 'forgiveness is devine message'?

(Which, actually is a rant of mine. Part of me really feels that revenge DOES make things better. Or at least, is a damn nice consolation prize.)

[ivy-chan.livejournal.com]

This episode is rocking on the top of my Avatar faves, along with Siege of the North! Katara was seriously hardcore in here, all business and ready to go and avenge her mother. The comparisons to Jet and Hama were nicely done, and I felt sorry for Aang after the confrontation with Zuko and Katara. Especially when she pulled the 'you don't know what I've been through' card with the kid who's had his entire people massacred, the salvation of the world placed on his shoulders, and has had people trying to kill him left and right. Remember all those angry bursts into the Avatar State, Katara? And how you told him once that his loved ones didn't like seeing him in all that rage and pain? Yes. Irony.

Zuko walking in on Sokka getting ready to seduce Suki. (And yes, probably have sex with her. Love tent!) This? This made me die laughing a lot. I saw the preview, but this was great. And Zuko's melting face followed by the complete and utter deadpan poker face was brilliant. (Something bothered me about the art in that scene, though. And I think at some point Zuko got a giraffe neck.)

And yes, Azula is hitting the deep end! I await Crazula with much anticipation. (And I loved it when her hair went loose at the end. I like her with her hair down for some reason.)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

I've actually found a lot of the episodes of season 2 subpar, but this - this was perfect.

Especially when she pulled the 'you don't know what I've been through' card with the kid who's had his entire people massacred, the salvation of the world placed on his shoulders, and has had people trying to kill him left and right. Remember all those angry bursts into the Avatar State, Katara? And how you told him once that his loved ones didn't like seeing him in all that rage and pain? Yes. Irony.

I actually thought Aang was the one coming across and hypocritical here - Katara always tried to comfort him, and let him know that he had people who loved him (which was what he needed, as he was all alone) but when she's ready to kill someone, the guy who needed his girlfriend to talk him down and HAS killed people gets all 'revenge is always wrong' on her? Step back, baldie.

(Something bothered me about the art in that scene, though. And I think at some point Zuko got a giraffe neck.)

I've had that thought too! I think the switching of artists is really showing.

[ivy-chan.livejournal.com]

Hm. See, I didn't like the anti-revenge message Aang was sending. I think she was justified in killing the man who murdered her mother. (Murder of an unarmed civilian noncombatant? A MOTHER? Bastard in the highest degree.) Still, revenge does have a lot of grey lines, and it's much easier to see all of them when you're standing in an unbiased perspective, like Aang was. I don't think he was coming across as hypocritical, though: Aang's motivation hasn't been about revenge. He's killed while in the Avatar State, which is clearly not really him, but even then the motivation was to save something or someone or beat off attackers. He could have been consumed by hatred of the Fire Nation, but as we see, he's willing to give them a second chance. It seemed to me like he wanted Katara to go and find her mother's killer and confront him and find closure, but not to 'stain her soul' with coldblooded murder or become consumed in the need for revenge, like Hama was.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Hm. See, I didn't like the anti-revenge message Aang was sending. I think she was justified in killing the man who murdered her mother. (Murder of an unarmed civilian noncombatant? A MOTHER? Bastard in the highest degree.)

Agreed. I am resistant to forgive the sinner is pretty much all forms and Aang is saying everything that people who have never been hurt and don't understand that deep, deep grief say. Frankly, what struck me as hypocritical is that Aang should KNOW BETTER.

That is where I really dislike the Avatar State. He gets upset, goes into the AS, and then isn't responsible for what he does or how he feels. (I'm thinking of when he attacked the sand people here.)

[ivy-chan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Avatar State is the perfect way to have the main hero kill people and wreck things without being a Bad Person or having consequences to their actions. I did like it in the episode where they try to force him into the Avatar State and he has a nightmare about being uncontrollably destructive, (killing Zuko,) and decides that he doesn't want to try to use the Avatar State that way. I kind of wish he'd have more worries and regrets about it, but this is where the 'it's a kid's show!' filter comes in. And Avatar State is weird, anyway. It seems to pick and choose how much peril Aang has to be in before it kicks in, or how angry he is.

I admit to watching the episode where they meet Bumi for the first time, and Aang's life and his friends lives are threatened multiple times in a most convincing way. I SO wanted him to snap into AS and start trashing everything, and have Bumi thining:" Oh shit, this wasn't part of my ingenious scheme!" And then Aang kills Bumi while in the AS and then learns that this is his childhood friend and has to deal with the guilt. I'd like to write that.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

It really does scream 'writer's plot toy!' And if that had happened in that episode, it would have been a hundred thousand times better. I would LOVE to read it if you decide to do an AU on that one.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Knew it! Knew there had to be a Zuko-Katara episode, that's the way the pattern's been going. And it was pretty damn awesome.

And Zuko was right more than Aang . . . he understood that, no matter Katara's decision in the end, she had to at least face down the bastard responsible. You can't forgive from a distance. You need to look them in the eye and make the decision.

And Katara . . . I think she realized that the guy was living such a pathetic little life that leaving him to live in it, knowing how big a fuck-up he'd made, was more of a punishment than just killing him outright. And the way he cheerfully offered up his mother? Killing her would be a reward.

Zuko's reaction to the bloodbending read to me as "Note: Never ever ever do anything to really piss this girl off."

I need icons, too.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I knew there was going to be a K/Z episode, but I actually thought it would come a little later.

And Zuko was right more than Aang . . . he understood that, no matter Katara's decision in the end, she had to at least face down the bastard responsible. You can't forgive from a distance. You need to look them in the eye and make the decision.

Word. Aang really came across as 'monk who is not living in the real world in this episode.

And yeah, trying to get Katara to kill him mother? I have no words for how low this guys is.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Well, they've pretty much been taking turns -- as Aang himself comments, it's Katara's turn to take a road trip with Zuko.

And Zuko's been in Katara's position; he faced down his father to confront him and show that he wasn't the weak little coward that dear ol' dad kept saying he was. "I can kill you, but I choose not to" is a powerful message to convey.

I think it would have been fine if Katara had settled for crippling his hand or castrating him or something -- make him live with the pain of that day like she had to live with the pain of the day he first faced her. Not killing the guy, but without the ability to take him to trial for war crimes, enacting a form of justice.

Aang is far too innocent. He hasn't really lived through all that he's suffered. The death of the monks he knew, when most of them would have died of old age anyway by the time he resurfaced? A vague realization. The death of all the other air nomads? Too big. It can't really sink in. He never lived through the raids on the temples, never looked in the eye the ones responsible. It's easier to forgive the man who killed your mother when you never actually knew your mother.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Aang is far too innocent. He hasn't really lived through all that he's suffered. The death of the monks he knew, when most of them would have died of old age anyway by the time he resurfaced? A vague realization. The death of all the other air nomads? Too big. It can't really sink in. He never lived through the raids on the temples, never looked in the eye the ones responsible. It's easier to forgive the man who killed your mother when you never actually knew your mother.

Yes, exactly. As someone else mentioned, the Avatar State is a great way to have your hero kill people without having your hero be responsible for people dying, and without having to have Aang deal with killing people.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

My view of morality in cases like this is best summed up in a Firefly quote: "If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back."

I'd like it more if Aang could make peace with himself over what he'd done in the Avatar State (rather than going the "Not my fault, not my concern" route)-- siege of the north, he killed people on those ships, but they were launching an attack on a city, not caring about the civilians, the children, who would get killed in the process. To accept that yes, sometimes you need to take one life to preserve the lives of many.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

My view of morality in cases like this is best summed up in a Firefly quote: "If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back."

Hell yes. Or you actually plan effectively to make them not a threat anymore, instead of waiting for a deux ex machina to drop in your lap.

[nephthysmoon.livejournal.com]

Yes...to all of it...I was absolutely speechless through out most of it, with my best friend and I typing mainly "OMG", "LMFAO", or "*DEATH*". Yes. I'm still speechless from the awesome, but I downloaded the torrent last night and put it on my mp3 player so I could hook it up to my work PC during lunch and watch again.

I cannot wait for tonight!

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if you'd pinged me during the episode, those would have been my responses too.

[oyster-district.livejournal.com]

Katara and Zuko ninja-ing around was everything Stormbenders promised us it would be.

Oh, man. You're gonna make me cry. For real. Thank you.

What I like about the resolution of this episode is its ambiguity. Katara spends so much of the series being completely self-righteous about whatever she's doing, and now she's actually uncertain for once. She's growing. It's great.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, man. You're gonna make me cry. For real. Thank you.


You've very welcome.

And I was pleased about the resolution of this episode as well - I was really afraid that they were going to go to a 'revenge is wrong' place, but they ended up at a really nicely human 'I won't descent to his level but I hate him' situation. I would have written it different, but *shrugs* Definitely up to par for Avatar.

And I really liked how this episode dealt with Katara's self-righteousness and the bloodbending in a really understated way.

[mzminola.livejournal.com]

NINJA KATARA! And she finally pulled her hair back! Yay! I miss her braid

Azula's hair is usually so crisp- and here she shower up with the antennea longer than usual, and then the full-out loose hair? FUCK YEAH!
She is so going totally psycho without friends.

We think they heard fan-rumors that Katara's mom was just captured, not killed, and partly did this to nix that. Does a great job showing why Katara is so much more traumatized than Sokka, and angry.

And 17 is up now, by the way. Juuuuuuuust so you know.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I know! It was awesome! (I miss her braid too.)

One reason I'm liking Azula so much is that for the first time, she doesn't have this perfect, villain with beloved henchmen life -she's struggling and alone. Almost in the same boat as Zuko season 1.

And I just posted my reaction to episode 17.

[mzminola.livejournal.com]

Braid was distincive, while flowy-hair is used for female leads so often...at least she gets to kee her hair-loopies!

Ooooh, parallels.

Looking at the above comments, I'm a little puzzled. Aang's first talk did come off as preachy, but the second one when she's in ninja gear? Seemed sound- he's heard her feelings, and agrees that she needs to confront this. "Let your anger out- and then let it go." All he asked was that she not kill him, which is asking a lot, you're right.
Part of his argument, I think, isn't just the monk upbringing. He has killed in the Avatar State (supposedly Greater Good or somehthing similar) and felt like shit about it. I'm thinking he doesn't want her to feel that too.

Interesting point earlier about differences in type of grief, how Aang's were fairly distant losses. I...really hope Katara apologizes to Sokka for what she said. He loved her the same, but he lost her differently. Sokka went out, and when he got back their mother was gone/dead. Just a sudden hole in hsi life. Katara actually came back to the burnt corpse, and had a face to go with the murderer.

[marbles-chan.livejournal.com]

Hey :D Late reply is late, but I remembered you asking for icons for up to this episode! I found some here (http://community.livejournal.com/profoundicons/13253.html), and I thought you'd be interested :3

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you!