Bite Me, Hypocrite

[redbrunja]

I realized while rereading the latest Naruto chapter (and wow, does it really love like Pain killed Hinata, I didn't catch how much so on the first reread) that I really want Pain and Shinji to meet.

Yeah, you just TRY and one-up Shinji 'my angst destroyed the word', Nagato. 

Comments

[ryanitenebrae.livejournal.com]

Spoilers for NGE:






Except. . .Shinji saved the world and rejected Instrumentality. ^^;

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Sort of... Didn't the movie end with everyone dead except him and Asuka?

[ryanitenebrae.livejournal.com]

Yes, but those that were dissolved by Rei/Lilith did so because they accepted Instrumentality. They made the decision, conscious or not, that combining with the rest of the race and no longer having to deal with the pain of living was best - Shinji and Asuka did not make that decision. I think it was stated/implied that it was possible for them to return if they truly chose they wanted to live. The movie and the series ending aren't really different endings, they just show different parts of the same thing.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Clearly, it's time for a rewatch.

[the-sun-is-up.livejournal.com]

and wow, does it really love like Pain killed Hinata, I didn't catch how much so on the first reread

Unfortunately, yes. There's even a Gory Discretion Shot complete with stabby sound effects and everything. The only thing I can think of is maybe it looked to Pein and Naruto like Pein finished her off, but by some miracle he actually missed hitting a vital point or something. Not that this is likely, but I'm remembering Neji's miraculous not!death in Part 1 so... idk.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Actually, killing Hinata would make A LOT of sense from Kishimoto's perspective (in the sense that he often cheats himself out of drama). Hinata confesses, yet the status quo of Naruto/Sakura stays the same because she's dead.

Oh the other hand, we know how Kishimoto hates to kill people.

[the-sun-is-up.livejournal.com]

Hinata confesses, yet the status quo of Naruto/Sakura stays the same because she's dead.

Haha that did occur to me that Kishimoto might kill Hinata because otherwise he'd actually have to deal with Naruto's reaction to Hinata's unexpected confession and that whole ball of wax.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

On the other hand, Hinata ALIVE might shock Sakura enough to be like, 'oh, damn, Naruto isn't a sure bet anymore.'

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I'm looking forward to the reread so I can finally figure out how Neji, Chouji, and Kiba didn't all die. I honestly they were all dead until, miraculously, they weren't.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

You know, I can buy SOME of them hanging on to life until the medics arrive, but all of them? No.

[steotrron.livejournal.com]

OH SHIT HOT NGE DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW.

[helicopini.livejournal.com]

YES PLZ.

[ivy-chan.livejournal.com]

'My angst is bigger than yours' is always fail. It doesn't matter if your world was destroyed, your parents raped you, your dearest friend ate your baby and then shot themselves in the head...if you go around acting like your angst is greater than everyone else's and that entitles you to act like the world's biggest dickhead, you have FAILED. I can handle 'you can't understand my angst', because it's partially true: everyone's angst is individual and affects them uniquely. But saying: "My angst is BETTER than yours?" Fuck off, wanker.

Especially when you say stuff like that in a series full of people whose friends and loved ones have died, have been captured, have turned to the dark side and their friends are unable to save them from their self-destruction...

Pain, you are a whiny little bitch.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

So true.

And he tried to pull this on fucking Tsunade.

It's one things for fans to talk about who had it worse but for characters, their awesome levels increase the less they talk about the massive angst they have. Look at Kakashi - he RARELY talks about his ohsotragic past, and is terribly awesome. Same with Tsunade - she doesn't TALK about it, but it clearly effects her.

[helicopini.livejournal.com]

Pain does remind me a lot of Shinji. Maybe he'd be jealous. xD His PAIN ZOMG didn't bring about the end of the world into a... whatever the hell that was in the final scenes of EoE. Oh noes, someone else feels MOAR PAIN than him.

They'd cancel one another's emotionally disassociated emo out. Like matter/antimatter or something. Either that or they'd completely understand one another and have a nice chat.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I don't think it would be that simple.

Shinji= massive angst by objective standards + totally not self-centered

Pain= mininal angst by objective standards - totally self-centered

equals=?

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Well, Pain did stab her behind a rock. I noticed the rock hid whatever part he stabbed, which means one of two things -- i.e. he stabbed her in a vital spot and Kishi didn't want to show this, for whatever reason, or Pain didn't stab her in a vital spot and he just wanted to make a point. The latter seems... really, really unlikely, given Pain's tendencies, but who knows?

I mean, Hinata in that scene was acting exactly like Konan would've acted if Pain's and Naruto's roles were reversed. Unless Pain didn't notice that he just stabbed the character who most resembles his own wife, BUT HE MAY NOT HAVE, since he's clearly so all about othering. I'm just saying, the stabbity-behind-the-rock makes me wonder where he poked her. For Kishi to have pulled that trick, it's either a bad sign or a very good one.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

The latter seems... really, really unlikely, given Pain's tendencies, but who knows?

It does. Honestly, I really think Hinata's chances are fifty-fifty. On the one hand, killing her off means not having to deal with rocking the Naruto/Sakura boat, but on the other, Kishimoto flinches away from killing off characters like you wouldn't believe.

I mean, Hinata in that scene was acting exactly like Konan would've acted if Pain's and Naruto's roles were reversed. Unless Pain didn't notice that he just stabbed the character who most resembles his own wife, BUT HE MAY NOT HAVE, since he's clearly so all about othering.

*snerk* Oh, you're delightful. And I'm sure that thought DID NOT EVEN OCCUR to Pain. Although it would be a really, really interesting thing to play with in fic. *ponders*

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it didn't occur to him, but it's true to an outsider's perspective! It's like, oh no, Pain, I can't believe you didn't realize you just stabbed the person who is most like your own wife (well, yes, I can believe you didn't realize that; empathy loss much). Actually, I've long thought Konan would die from taking some blow for him, and now I'm just sure of it. This situation with Hinata seems like foreshadowing.

[Or maybe I'm the only one seeing this parallel in the women here, but it just SEEMS SO OBVIOUS...they are the exact same personality type of women, and while that could be Kishi's bad writing toward women, um, not all the girls are that specifically similar in quietness/loyalty?] YEAH, it's almost like the alpha male men make war and the bystanders and their loved ones suffer. If the manga were deeper, there could be some real socio-political commentary there ('course you can read that into it, regardless).

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

No, one of the few good things Kishimoto does is that the women DO have very different personalities, and while I don't think that it's deliberate, I DO think it's interesting that both Pain and Naruto have women like that watching their backs.

YEAH, it's almost like the alpha male men make war and the bystanders and their loved ones suffer. If the manga were deeper, there could be some real socio-political commentary there ('course you can read that into it, regardless).

Isn't that most of what we do anyway?

Actually, I've long thought Konan would die from taking some blow for him, and now I'm just sure of it. This situation with Hinata seems like foreshadowing.

Deliciously ironic and crunchy forshadowing. I hope he gets a moment of epiphany and realizes exactly how much he fucked up.

[hieronymousb.livejournal.com]

Isn't that most of what we do anyway?

I BELIEVE IT IS, indeed!

Deliciously ironic and crunchy forshadowing. I hope he gets a moment of epiphany and realizes exactly how much he fucked up.

Someone asked me what I thought the best ending would be for them, and for me, that'd be it. Actually, I hope it's like, Konan takes a fatal blow, but is still alive so she can hear him apologize. THAT would the best possible outcome I could probably ever hope for, since they're going to end in death, anyway.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah... it kinda makes me sad how consistently villains end up dead in Naruto. And none of the good guys ever get touched.