Your Heart Is An Empty Room

[redbrunja]

Nina Dobrev is so good. She says one line and we know she's Katherine and not Elena. So good.

Also, that dream was fantastic - and totally fanservice for all the Damon/Elena, Katherine/Stefan fans.

Can I just say that the toast that Damon gave to George Lockwood was weird? It felt like they'd forgotten that Damon also fought in the Civil War  (and that it would have been expected and almost beyond comment) or like they couldn't decide if they wanted to do something pointed about Damon deserting (which I would love more details on).

I am loving new, hardcore Stefan.

Ha, ha, Elena's 'awwwkwaaarrrrd' face when Jenna said, "I'll like Damon when he learns to keep his paws off you" was priceless.

Damon is hysterical when he's playing nice guy. I love his unnecessary 'she doesn't like me very much' regarding Jenna.

Oh, Caroline, please don't confuse Edward Cullen with Stefan. Seriously, it's not that hard and you're not that blonde. Oh, wait, nevermind, she'd projecting.

Katherine, sweetie, if you had to compel him after he realized you were a vampire, he didn't really love you, he loved the idea of you in his head. Damon, now, he really loved you, Katherine Petrova, the poor bastard.

Speaking of Damon, I think he's finally getting over Katherine. Which is kind of bad timing, considering that ELENA AND STEFAN ARE SETTING NEW RECORDS OF AWESOME.

THEY FAKED A FIGHT! THEY FIGURED OUT CAROLINE WAS A SPY! STEFAN'S CRAZY JEALOUS EX COULDN'T COME BETWEEN THEM!

(That said, it's looking like they might really go to the 'Katherine loves Stefan and that's why she's doing this' place and that makes me sad).

The seven days between each episode seem to take are really long time to pass, but I kind of love that because it stretches out the enjoyment of this show. Everytime I think about how I have eighteen episode left of this season, I become so happy.

Comments

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

I've decided that I'm going to let the episodes build up for a bit before I watch again. (Individually the rage blocks out the joy.) But I'll sit back and glee over your nicely not-too-specific reviews which highlight the bits that are aimed for every button I have ever had ever.

[natural-blue-26.livejournal.com]

But I'll sit back and glee over your nicely not-too-specific reviews

I'm also watching them a few at a time (because my friend and I *always* have to watch them together and our work schedules currently don't match up at *all*) and the previews help me continue to fangirl between viewings. ;)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

We aim to please. ^_^

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

LJ ate my comment :( But.

I too want more backstory on Damon's desertion and I'm actually trying to write a Damon/Alaric fic around that concept. But I think the George comment was a subtle stab at that and hopefully means we'll get more.

Speaking of Damon, I think he's finally getting over Katherine. Which is kind of bad timing, considering that ELENA AND STEFAN ARE SETTING NEW RECORDS OF AWESOME.

I'm actually very concerned it was Damon's love that was compelled. Which upsets me. I am confused why Katherine even turned Damon though, or told him she was a vampire, if she loved Stefan all along.

[natural-blue-26.livejournal.com]

I'm actually very concerned it was Damon's love that was compelled. Which upsets me. I am confused why Katherine even turned Damon though, or told him she was a vampire, if she loved Stefan all along.

My basic impression is that Katherine tends to be impulsive/selfish, and she probably just *wanted* Damon in set with Stephan, even if she wasn't in love with him. (Or she's lying about only being in love with Stephan, with I kind of hope, because she's dragging both of the boys over an emotional fire pit in a way right now.)

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

That makes sense. She really is.

I started out this season really excited for her but now I just want to glare at her. It's only fun when everyone's taking jabs at each other, not one person always winning.

[natural-blue-26.livejournal.com]

It's only fun when everyone's taking jabs at each other, not one person always winning. Totally agree.

There's something of a sane(r) Dru in the way she jumps from thought to thought sometimes... Or maybe it's just me. ;)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

But I think the George comment was a subtle stab at that and hopefully means we'll get more.

I really hope so. Because in some ways, Damon's reported actions and what we have actually seen of him in flashbacks doesn't quite fit together.

I'm actually very concerned it was Damon's love that was compelled. Which upsets me. I am confused why Katherine even turned Damon though, or told him she was a vampire, if she loved Stefan all along.

I don't think so. I think Damon's ACTIONS were compelled, but I think his emotions and what he did while Katherine was grooming him where things he did of his own free will.

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

Damon's reported actions and what we have actually seen of him in flashbacks doesn't quite fit together.

Like his jab last year to Stefan about how Stefan took Katherine to the ball but Damon was waiting for her when she got back? Yeah. And I know once they're vampires they're supposed to remember what was compelled and what was real, but that's a bit hazy so far. Stefan didn't remember exactly what was compelled, just that he'd been. Caroline was a little more specific.

The Damon/Katherine shipper in me might just be a bit ticked off at this episode.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Like his jab last year to Stefan about how Stefan took Katherine to the ball but Damon was waiting for her when she got back? Yeah.

Agreed. It would have been SO easy for Katherine to have been touched by what Stefan said and still have nailed Damon through the bed in a meaningless way. Come on, writers, your actors are way past good enough to make that clear!

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

Have you seen stainofmylove's reaction post? It sums up my thoughts on the episode way more clearly than I would.

But yeah, come on. This show is too good to need to be fixed by fanfic (not that we need an excuse, really...)

Love the icon.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yes I have! And while I had an overall morere positive emotional reaction to this episode, stainofmylove makes some EXCELLENT point about places where the writers are being lazy.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Actually, Caroline's made it pretty clear that once you become a vampire, you know if you were compelled or not, though you may not always be clear on the exact specifics, and Damon and Emily both have unequivocally stated that Katherine didn't compel Damon. While I don't find Damon remotely trustworthy on any level, I tend to think Emily knew what she was talking about, especially since she was trying to warn Stefan what he was in for at the time.

Of course, the writers are pretty inconsistent with the writing on Caroline (because they pretty blatantly don't respect her and admit it in interviews) and Damon (because they'll jump at any excuse to excuse his actions and try to make us forget them) so who knows.

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

though you may not always be clear on the exact specifics

Well that's the rub, isn't it? I don't actually think Damon's love was compelled - something clearly was, though not necessarily his love. I would just hate if the writers went there. And I'm not sure how privy Emily would have been to the whole Damon/Katherine backstory. I dislike the trope of all-knowing characters.

I haven't read the books - when you say the writers have been inconsistent with writing Caroline, are you referencing the books? Granted I never paid much attention to her before this season but I didn't get the sense they were trying to destroy her.

If they want us to forget Damon's actions, good luck on that one. His actions when he first comes to Mystic Falls are so integral to his character that to ignore them would be... weak. That's all.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Julie Plec on Caroline: "a neurotic, jealous busybody who is always putting her foot in her mouth and Damon isn’t going to put up with her, so she’s doomed. She is absolutely, fundamentally doomed by definition of her own personality." So Caroline's doomed as a teenager for being a teenager, but Damon gets to spend 150 years raping, murdering, manipulating, and abusing people for his own pleasure and entertainment, and he gets to be cast as the moral arbiter. (Like all his punishing Elena this season for Katherine not loving him.) And they basically push Caroline into being whatever they want to further the story, usually having her be used/misused in the process.

The series tends to acknowledge Damon's actions for an episode or two and then handwave them and focus on how he's Angsty and Hot and Funny. And they've already rewritten it from his using the safety of Emily's family to make her save the tomb vampires to her doing it and not telling him until he was a vampire, which is something that makes no sense whatsoever, and they're doing a pretty good job of trying to say that everything bad he's ever done is all the evil woman's fault. IMO, the writers have been pretty weak (and frequently misogynistic) when it comes to Damon's character and holding his acountable, because by the time he murdered his best friend, the only reason not to kill him has been that he's a main character. Not killing him basically makes all the other characters look stupid.

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

Well Julie Plec clearly doesn't like Caroline, but that's not writing her inconsistently. And yes, she's a teenager. Nothing wrong with that - except she's living in a town of vampires. That's not a condemnation of her personality, it's just a fact that vampires, especially vampires like Katherine and Damon, are unlikely to tolerate her behavior for long. Especially if it risks exposing them. And that is not a moral argument in favor of Damon or Katherine's actions - it's an argument in the same way that a gazelle cannot reasonably expect to walk into a camp of lions and come out alive unless it blends.

It just seems like you don't like Damon, which is fine. As far as I'm concerned, Katherine isn't any better than Damon though, and that's not an evil woman stereotype. That's my analysis of a woman who turned 26 vampires only to have them be killed for her own ends, and who turned another just for fancy, and who turned the one she loved into a vampire only to leave him for 145 years. By her own admission, her list of victims is a long one and she doesn't seem to have qualms about killing Caroline for her own purposes.

because by the time he murdered his best friend, the only reason not to kill him has been that he's a main character. Not killing him basically makes all the other characters look stupid.

Okay I just don't remember this. Did you mean to say murder Stefan's best friend Lexi? Did you mean when he killed Jeremy?

I agree he's upredictable and dangerous, but the whole point of his character is whether he can come back from all his crimes. If you just want to write him off, that's fine, but Stefan's clearly not willing to give up his brother just yet. And if we're going to judge Stefan by the same standards as Damon, we don't know what or how much damage Stefan did before he decided to go off human blood. Perhaps that's why he's so determined to try and save Damon, as a reflection of himself.

But this all goes back to the idea of the vampire. Traditionally they are morally gray at best, prone to killing and even rape, among other things. Granted Damon hasn't raped anyone this season and seems remorseful for trying to kill Jeremy - which may have been a wake up call for himself - but that shouldn't dismiss his past actions. He has to atone for them, no doubt. But so do a lot of other people, including Katherine. And now, Caroline. And even Stefan.

As to your point about Damon punishing Elena for Katherine not loving him, maybe, maybe not. He was trying to hurt Elena when he killed Jeremy, no doubt. Whether that was about Katherine or the fact that everything he's worked for for 145 years had been for people who don't give a damn about him probably played a big role. Again, this is not justification for murder - but since then, he hasn't once punished Elena for Katherine's feelings. His comment about her being like Katherine is completely true and doesn't have to be completely negative.

But to end, nobody in this show is purely good or evil anymore. Everyone's pushing their boundaries and own limits on what they'll allow themselves to do/how much they'll tolerate from others.

[prozacpark.livejournal.com]

Katherine and Damon are the same level of evil, arguably, yes. However, Damon's actions and evilness are being blamed on Katherine. The characters point to Katherine as the reason he's flown off the hinge, and Damon expects Elena to take that into consideration when making his case. Katherine, at least, is not going around blaming her evilness on others, and the text isn't blaming others for it. It's the consistent handwaving of Damon's evilness that makes it worse.

We *know* that Katherine will, at some point, have to pay for her evilness by dying or something worse while Damon is there to stay. Katherine is evil, the characters understand that she causes them issues, and they're doing something about that problem. I honestly don't get why Damon has been allowed to live thus far, if we're viewing them at the same level on the scale of evilness. If anything, Damon has more consistently hurt people close to Elena and Stefan (and on purpose, with the intention of hurting/punishing them, when Katherine's motives seem to still be a bit more complex than that, and her evil is more of the Machiavellian kind where she does evil things for her own ends, and not impulsively with the intention of hurting people like Damon) than Katherine has thus far.

But Katherine is clearly our villain and Damon is our anti-hero (who will be redeemed), so while it can be argued that they're both equally evil, the text is not showing that at all. Which, on a metanarrative level, makes Damon much, much worse.

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

I see your point, but this assumes Katherine's going to die/pay for her crimes.

I'm not sure she will be killed. It's a possibility, but I think the writers need her there to play out the triangle. That'll get old (LOST-alumnae here) but it's the more likely path than Stefan and Elena killing Katherine to get rid of her while giving Damon a chance to redeem himself.

Of course if Katherine dies and Damon remains the anti-hero, yes. There's a problem. But then, the show would be over pretty quickly.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

it's just a fact that vampires, especially vampires like Katherine and Damon, are unlikely to tolerate her behavior for long.

And why on earth should that be a fact? Why should the writers allow that? Why should the writers make the deliberate choice - have the deliberate preference - to murder her because the villains don't like her? You could just as easily have them express their impatience and be thwarted. No, the writers think it's perfectly okay and a natural extension to have 'she's a teenager, and her rapist doesn't like it, so obviously she's going to die.' Never mind spouting extremely gendered and problematic stereotypes as - not even justification, because Julie 'proud of the fact that she fridged Anna' Plec doesn't see anything to justify.

Never mind the fact that Caroline has not been particularly immature or teenager-like in her most recent interactions with Damon; she's been behaving in a perfectly justified manner. So basically what Damon is 'not going to put up with' is his abused victim having the power to fight back.

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

All right, at this point I just want to say we'll have to wait and see if Damon really does snap and kill Caroline. Given his behavior and hers in recent episodes, that doesn't seem likely, especially if he's trying to win Elena's trust back. Katherine, of course, could still kill Caroline without a thought, because she's the one who's been using Caroline and who Caroline is now trying not to obey. I don't expect that to happen soon though.

And why on earth should that be a fact? Why should the writers allow that?

The short answer is - because this is a show about vampires. If it was a show about humans or emotionally balanced villains, we could contest it more and ask for more. Damon has already proven he acts rashly when emotional, and I'm sure he's not alone in that (look at Katherine's actions, Anna's after her mother's death, Stefan's when he's on human blood). It's not a justification - but it is the explanation. If the writers ignored the fact that vampires are supposed to be selfish, emotional and dangerous I would checking if this was Twilight.

I want to be very clear - I am not condoning a vampire killing someone because they don't like them - being a vampire does not remove a character's culpability. It does put it in a different context.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

If it was a show about humans or emotionally balanced villains, we could contest it more and ask for more.

This is a show chiefly about a vegetarian vampire. And we clearly can ask for more, because male characters who have killed and attempted to kill vampires (Uncle John, Jeremy) have been spared. So actually, what we can't ask for more for is female characters, even if their crime is something as small as not liking the vampires. In one case, Damon did kill him! - and the writers brought him back to life. That is a choice the writers made; to not let ~vampire nature~ be the be-all and end-all of the storytelling...just as long as the men were involved.

And even if they did handwave everything as 'vampires are violent and dangerous' and kill characters willy nilly with that as their only excuse, that would be very lazy writing. If something being bigger and meaner and stronger than you were made the equation as simple as that, humans would never survive bear attacks.

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

This is a show chiefly about a vegetarian vampire.

Well, we're watching different shows then. I see it as a show about two brothers, one of whom is not vegetarian and one of whom has a history of not being able to control himself when he's not vegetarian, as you put it.

And it's also a show about Katherine, a woman who goes around wrecking as much havoc as any of the men. I doubt we'll see eye to eye on any of this so I don't see a point to this.

if they did handwave everything as 'vampires are violent and dangerous' and kill characters willy nilly with that as their only excuse, that would be very lazy writing

or... consistent with vampire mythology. they haven't willy-nilly killed every character, but being a show about vampires it makes sense vampires (and humans and werewolves) will be in life and death situations. as I implied above, I don't think this show is Twilight. I know the books are different, though from what I've heard not in the direction of nobody gets killed and everyone has self control.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

To clarify my point: whether Caroline dies or is not necessarily important in this discussion, because her death would only be the latest in a very well established pattern of women dying, for reasons that men are constantly spared for or for no reason at all.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

Mmm, didn't see your most recent comment when I wrote that last one. True, no point.

[dranime203.livejournal.com]

"I'm actually very concerned it was Damon's love that was compelled. Which upsets me. I am confused why Katherine even turned Damon though, or told him she was a vampire, if she loved Stefan all along."

I think she turned Damon by accident - she didn't planned to get caught when with Stefen (probably assuming that he'd go all out to defend her and get killed). Damon was probably an unfortunate coincidence.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Umm, I think you responded to my post instead of mollivanders's comment, which you quoted.

To answer, though, (especially with the latest episode) I'm not sure WHAT Katherine was planning with those boys - I know they almost screwed up her plans and I'm not sure if she wanted to turn them (it's hard to ACCIDENTALLY feed someone your blood, after all) or it she was just rolling the dice.