redbrunja | Well, Tonight's Evening Of Entertainmeant Left Me On The Floor Screaming, "IS THERE NO GOD?"

It crossed the line between teasing the fans and mocking them.

Thank you for saying that. I was half-tempted to turn the TV off. The only worthwhile scene was the bonding moment between Toph and Zuko. Otherwise, it seemed like a bad filler episode. =/

You've very welcome.

And seemed like? It was a bad filler episode. In a season that has had a lot of filler.

That scene with Toph and Suki's outfit where the only things worth my time. I remember looking at the clock and going, 'oh, god, are they seriously going to do a whole episode of recap?' and they did.

I remember looking at the clock and going, 'oh, god, are they seriously going to do a whole episode of recap?' and they did.

I wish they hadn't. I was under the impression that they were going to do the play thing during the first half of the episode and then go and do something worth~~while~~watching during the second half. Guess I was wrong. T-T

Fail, Bryke. Major fail.

Yes, exactly. I was waiting for a confrontation backstage, or for the actors to be related to Ty Lee, or SOMETHING. This was just a waste of time, and considering Sokka's lampshading comment about it, I think Mike & Bryan were expecting us to find it all oh, so funny.

Yeah, it's amazing how 36 minutes of listening to my favorite characters get insulted and SINCE WHEN DOES KATARA GIVE SPEECHES ABOUT HOPE?!?!?!?! isn't entertaining.

And they didn't even defend her when she complained! Gah. She's not a crybaby, she doesn't give speeches like that, she's not that passive . . . she had right to complain, and the others should have backed her up.

Fuck yes.

Especially because he complain took the form of an attempt to cheer them all up.

Yeah! I can see that, when watching it, they'd mostly focus on how horrible the portrayal of their own character was, and a mutual bitch/compliment session about how horrible the overall treatment would help gain perspective, make it feel less like they were being personally targeted. Each of them telling the others "You're nothing like that! You're awesome!" would have gone swimmingly, assuring them that the people who mattered didn't buy into that shit.

Yeah, it would have worked brilliantly if everyone except for Katara wasn't a selfish dick.

I haven't seen the episode yet, but I'll remind you that you can now read the end to SB quite safely. ^.-.

Yay! That thought perks up my evening!

I have to say that I was horrendously amused throughout the entire episode, but I think it was more because of the rediculous theatrical aspect. I remember the thought, "God *damn* their tech department sucks ass!" and then proceded to giggle as the stage crew scuttled about in all black to be -inconspicuous-. That, and Fire Lord!Old man make-up.

Also, the quip about Jet? "Um...Did Jet just die?"..."I'm not really sure". I think that was Mike and Bryan poking fun at their own show.

I don't know, maybe it was funny because I didn't read to much into it and Whore!Katara actress just kept making me laugh my ass off?

Also...

What didn't you like about Dr.Horrible: SAB Act II?

The quip about Jet WAS funny, I'll admit, but overall, I think this show beats out The Divide for worst episode ever.

It was act 3 that annoyed me. I'll say no more.

Just went and watched III, I can understand why you're upset...but then again, it's Joss (Or, as Alan Tudyuk/Wash calls him, Joss "The Bastard" Whedon). He can't end a show without a major character death. (*coughSerenitycough*)

If it makes you feel any better, go look up Neil Patrick Harris as the Shoe Fairy on Sesame Street.

Edited 2008-07-19 07:48 (UTC)

WHY MUST YOU MAKE EVERYONE SAD, ALWAYS, JOSS!

AND ALL DO THAT.

You know, if I was going just from the show at this point, I'd say they weren't shipping Katara/Aang. They seemed to be in first season a LOT. But as the show went on, the relationship got less and less, um, shippy.

I fully, outright liked two things about this episode. One: Toph and Zuko talking about Iroh. His guilt about how he treated Iroh was nicely done, I think, and I'm glad we had the chance to tie in Toph's chat with Iroh about Zuko. Two: Zuko's reaction to his death scene. Not only does he have the horrifying image of being burned alive by Azula, I felt so bad for him watching the people he wants to protect and rule gleefully cheer about his death scene. We've seen that he wants to a good ruler who does the best he can for his people, and that must have been a stab to the gut. *hugs Zuko*

Those were really the only two good scene in the episode.

And I totally agree about Zuko watching his death scene. That must have hurt so badly.

I didn't like Act III either. Compared to how much I loved Act II, it was quite disappointing.

I didn't mind that they killed a major character (I had actually expected Billy to die), or that it ended on a morbid note... I was fine with the conclusion that the world sucks and the villainy has been achieved. I was just disappointed with HOW they got to that conclusion. It was mundane, it was predictable, and I can think of about seven or eight ways already to reach the same conclusions but in a much more wacky or creative way. And it didn't really end so much as...trickle out.

*nods*

Frankly, when Penny was dying, all I wanted to do was get out my Firefly DVD and watch the 1,000 x better Kaylee getting shot scene.

And what were your ideas? Because at around act 2 i realized what he was doing to do, and spent the next 15 minutes hoping futilely he won't.

My first choice would have been to make Penny be secretly Bad Horse. That wouldn't mean she'd end up dating Dr. Horrible, or even that Dr. Horrible would win his goal... it would just change the dynamic dramatically.

Penny could have died in a more active way... by doing SOMETHING instead of being a victim of stray [ammunition].

I have more ideas, but they're... scattered. And a lot would depend on or involve a three-way confrontation instead of the two-way confrontation that we actually got.

The one reason I don't like Penny as Bad Horse is that it would have screwed up the trying to be evil guy in love with a do-gooder.

But there really, really needed to be a three-way confrontation instead of the one we got.

What I loved about this episode was how it kindasorta reminded me of old!Beijing Opera - with the ridiculously garish costumes and make-up, the pretty good tech-y stuff (for their era, it's pretty good, come on! I mean, black light? Fucking awesome, man!)

But yeah, I have to agree with you on your points, especially re: Kataang. I am so clueless as to how they're gonna make it work after this episode :/

Suki, Sokka, Jet, Yue - and I'm sure there's more - fell in love during a war. Yeah, well, aside from Suki, most all of those relationships ended badly D: And Kataang deals with having to fall in love with the freaking savior of the world - how can she NOT feel uncomfortable? No wonder she's confuzzled. :/

... Man!Toph was amazing, though.

I think earlier in the season, if they weren't just recapping, I would have adored the theatre bits. Now? I just felt like they were wasting my time.

But yeah, I have to agree with you on your points, especially re: Kataang. I am so clueless as to how they're gonna make it work after this episode :/

Suki, Sokka, Jet, Yue - and I'm sure there's more - fell in love during a war. Yeah, well, aside from Suki, most all of those relationships ended badly D: And Kataang deals with having to fall in love with the freaking savior of the world - how can she NOT feel uncomfortable? No wonder she's confuzzled. :/

The thing is - if Katara is falling in love or in love... wouldn't there be some signs? I mean, I have read/watched LOTS of 'I love you there is problems because of our station/job/etc' and there is always clear hints that that love is THERE, even if the characters won't admit it.

Look, when someone says 'i want to date you' and all you can say is 'i can't think about this right now' and you're not, you know, in the middle of a battle, it just comes across like you don't really like them like that.

Compare the wedding scene in PoTC, Mal and Inara's whole relationship, and if you give me a minute I'll think of a few more.

I'm thinking you might like to know what my Dad said about the 'Kataang confrontation' thing at the end. He just started laughing, and said, pausing between bouts of laughter, "Yeah, when she says, "I'm confused,' she means, 'I have an answer to your question, but you're not going to like it, and I'm confused as to how to tell you.'

LOL!

Um, yeah, that would be my reading. When you can't say what you feel, and can't say when you will say what you feel... I'm sorry, but that is not how you act when the answer is 'yep, I wanna date.'

Agreed. Now, I have been going over the episode again, on the high-quality version we have on iTunes, and watching closely. Katara definitely looks as if she does not want to be with Aang, but really does not want to tell him so. Now, little things:

Toph has burns on her feet, albeit recovering and small. Nice attention to detail, Bryke!

I have been trying to interpret the edging away from each-other bit in the Zutara scene, but have come to the conclusion that it is pretty much meaningless. The scene is awkward for them, especially how bad it is. No matter what stage the relationship is in, THAT would be awkward. Also, my Dad believes that scene is being used, not just to make fun of us, as I professsed, but to set up Zutara vs. Kataang in the finale. Also, when they do the Kataang handshake bit, Zuko looks visibly angsty, as does Katara. I mean, that latter expression could be interpreted as angst that they changed it from a kiss, but considering the following scene, I doubt it.

She really, really does.

Frankly, nothing in this episode pinged my zutara-meter, beyond the fact that I cracked up when Zuko was sitting next to Katara and didn't move. But frankly, in that situation (i.e. getting humiliated) unless who you're crushing on is part of the pain, you're not thinking about them.

Zutara-meter..that sounds like some bizarre device that you buy in a novelty shop, and it, like, has a pictutre of the Zutara hug on one side, and the DoBS kiss on the other, and when something Zutaresque happens, it starts making PING noises.

..I blame the heat.

Agreed, and that is exactly what I was attempting(and probably failing) to say, that their moving away from eachother is a normal sign of humiliation, and not indicative of..really anything.

I still think the expression on Zuko in the Kataang handshake may mean something, but it could also be anger and apprehension because of how godawful the play was.

Zutara-meter..that sounds like some bizarre device that you buy in a novelty shop, and it, like, has a pictutre of the Zutara hug on one side, and the DoBS kiss on the other, and when something Zutaresque happens, it starts making PING noises.

I think I have one of those in my tummy.

They did edge away from each other when the actors portraying them got romantic on-stage. But frankly, I could see them acting that way even if they were already a couple or something because -- SO AWKWARD.

Oh, I didn’t think it was that bad. Certain fandom things should be mocked; because they’re stupid – I’m just disappointed they weren’t able to fit more in there. Mocking the whole Azula redemption theory would have been beautiful. And to be fair, Mike and Bryan mocked themselves just as much as they did the fans.

Yeah. Suki’s new outfit is really hot.

Suki, Sokka, Jet, Yue – all entirely different situations. Katara held Aang DEAD in her arms. She already lost him once. She’d be insane not to be worried about a repeat days before he goes to face the most powerful bender on the planet to decide the fate of the world.

Katara held Aang DEAD in her arms. She already lost him once. She’d be insane not to be worried about a repeat days before he goes to face the most powerful bender on the planet to decide the fate of the world.

Then how come there were no hints about that? No longing glances after Aang, no 'kiss, kiss, wait, we can't do that!' Katara just jerks away and looks pissed. I have seen no hints since 'The Headband' that she likes Aang In That Way and if Mike and Bryan want to end the series with that romance (which they might not, at this point, and I would be thrilled and impressed) they should be giving us clues that the female lead IS crushing on the male, even if he doesn't know.

That Katara likes Aang? Because they’ve been building that for two seasons, and they want to keep a little tension. It’s already been established in an incredibly anvilicious way. They’ve devoted entire A plots to it. Multiple times. Having more of that in season three would be redundant.

And it’s all a matter of perspective anyway. That scene could easily be read as Katara getting pissed because she really likes Aang but can’t deal with it and thus gets angry because she can’t face her own feelings.

Um, they've been anvillicious about Aang liking Katara, but since 'the headband' we haven't seen hints of Katara liking Aang. I'm not arguing about this because I don't ship them; I really think that if you're going to write a romance, you need to show hints that both sides like the other person. Otherwise, it's coming across like Naruto/Sakura or Sakura/Sasuke. Which would be fine - I just don't think that's what M & B are writing.

And I think M & B are good enough writers to make it clear to the viewers why Katara is pulling back even if Aang doesn't know, and the fact that they haven't, and I'm left with only the conclusion that she doesn't like him.... it's great writing if they're going to be fantastically awesome and have a pairing neutral ending, but less awesome if they're going to have this big romance resolution in the finale.

But we'll just have to wait twelve hours and see which way they jump. ^_^

I pretty much disagree with all your points, but I guess it’s a matter of perspective.

Twelve hours! (though I’m not going to be able to see it till tomorrow morning, which blows. But I’ll be back to discuss it then.)

The entire Whedon fandom was going batshit crazy yesterday trying to figure out what he was going to pull with the last Act of Dr. Horrible.

I think as he posted it, Joss sat back and laughed, yelling, "You just got JOSSED, motherfucker!"

Because we did. We really, really did.

I think that writer enjoys torturing his fans a little too much.

I think the internet exploded over Dr. Horrible. I stayed up past 1 to watch it (time zones for the lose), and checking my flist after 1 usually means that there's not too much to get caught up on in the morning . . . but because I'm in four different Dr. Horrible groups, it was at 'skip 100'.

My view of Katara is that she's fourteen with abnormal social development, so she's not ready to date even in general. She was pushed into the role of mother to her family, and unofficial leader to the Gaang (because though Aang's the Avatar, who's the one who makes sure everyone does their jobs when setting up camp, keeps things organized, etc?). She's a mother, a healer, an impromptu midwife, and a powerful bender who keeps training to get better and increase her ability.

She's not like a girl in junior high who'd have gobs of free time to sit with her friends and gossip about boys they like. She rarely has time to just sit and think about her feelings. The girl needs time to act her age and be able to worry about silly shit before she'll relax enough to think about dating.

Sokka rarely takes things seriously. Suki may have trained hard as a Kyoshi warrior, but the other warriors were with her to gossip and laugh and have time to relax with. Jet was a ladies' man, but I don't think he really fell in love. Even Yue would have had friends to relax with.

Even in the first episode, Katara commented that she never had time to act like a kid and go penguin sledding anymore. So when it comes to something relaxed and happy like falling in love, it doesn't come as easy to her.

There was the odd crush, but those tended to end badly, so that didn't help.

But yeah, even with that in mind? I don't think it feels like she likes Aang that way.

Yeah, I heard that Dr Horrible crashed three servers.

And those were great points about Katara. She really doesn't have the chance to be a child and explore being a girl in the way that Suki did, and Sokka just jumped right into the dating scene.

Yep. Having a thousand people trying to watch in a single second will do that to you.

*nodnod* There's not even any girls around her age in the Southern Water Tribe she could make friends with, and she didn't exactly have the chance to travel and meet others. It's kind of odd, but Katara and Sokka seem to be the only ones between the ages of six and . . . mm . . . about twenty-six, I'd guess, that were left there. The missing men I can get, they're off at war, but the rest? Perhaps the differences in ages represent how often the men get back to visit their wives, and Hadoka was able to get in an extra few visits because he was the chief.

You know, I really don't think Hokoda got back more often than his men. I think it's more likely that everyone who wasn't pregnant or had a kid left, which probably got rid of all the people who where at Katara's age when the show opened, which left the babies and their parents behind. Plus, since the village was so small, it's unlikely that ANYONE has a really big age cohort - I bet the babies are all 'MUST SEX BEFORE I DON'T SEE YOU FOR YEARS' babies.

We enjoyed the play's Special Effects, and how it reminded us of ways stories about the Monkey King get performed.
My first thought on Avatar-Actress was "Whoo Ty Lee! Wait, she's in prison. Dangit."

...I want Mai and Ty Lee to come back.

I would want Ty Lee and Mai more if I thought they were going to go off and have awesome lesbian adventures, instead of Mai hooking up with Zuko to be the WORST FIRELADY EVER!

Look on the bright side! If Zuko runs into a "redemption equals death" trope Mai can't be!

For serious though, in my head Mai and Ty Lee are busted out of prison and having awesome lesbian ~~or at least Girl Power Best Friends~~ adventures avoiding the Fire Nation Military and kicking ass.

...or found that pretty island full of massages and cherry blossoms where everyone dressed in pink for some relaxing down-time. ~~I should put that on my list of things to write with them, shouldn't I~~ Agh brain why, it is late at night.

Well, Tonight's Evening Of Entertainmeant Left Me On The Floor Screaming, "IS THERE NO GOD?"

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