Sanzo Became A Sadistic Evil Manipulater When?

[redbrunja]

I have noticed a trope that fanfiction authors use when writing Sanzo from Saiyuki, and it drives me insane because it's usually written by good authors who almost make it work, but I read their fic and it takes me a day to figure out why that fic left a bad taste in my mouth as well as  precisely why it drove me insane.

Okay, here's the senario: with no build-up or explanation, I'm supposed to suddenly believe that Sanzo is not only fucking both Hakkai and Goyjo (not at the same time) but that he's using them with no emotional attachment, simply to satisfy a bodily need, similar to the way he smokes cigerettes, they mean nothing to him, and they are just okay with this.

To reiterate and simplify, Sanzo snaps his fingers, and says 'I'm going to be fucking you now' and then proceds to do so.

Why this bothers me and is it is, imho, a complete corruption of his character:

First, I have a really hard time buying Sanzo having sex with anyone. From what I've seen, he hates touching people and being touched. When Kanzeon, aka the Merciful Goddess, kisses him while he's unconcious, he slaps at her. If what I understand is correct, he was almost raped at a very young age and killed his attacker, his former friend (who viewed Sanzo as surronded by floating flowers, in the flashbacks if that gives you an idea of the kind of emotional attachments we're dealing with) Rikudo turned himself into a demon and almost killed Sanzo, etc.

This is not a man who has positive ideas about sex or physical contact.

Even considering that he's a man and has needs, what is wrong with masturbation? That makes much more sense to me for Sanzo; you don't have to involve anyone else, deal with their issues, or worry that they're going to say something about it/make comments/expect anything. That seems much more in line with Sanzo as well as the Buddhist principles of detachment and no mind.

Secondly, let's take into consiteration his partners, shall we?

Neither Hakkai, nor Goyjo are doormats. While I have no doubt that if someone had complete control over either of them (i.e. they are not traveling willingly with them to achieve a goal) they could manipulate Goyjo and Hakkai (Hakkai especially) into thinking they are worthless and fit only to be used by someone.

I don't, however, buy either of them  willingly letting someone use them for their own amusement, unless, with Goyjo, it was a mutal thing, and she was smokin' hot. Furthermore, with Goyjo, can you see him keeping his mouth shut that he's banging the priest, guess Sanzo isn't so high and mighty after all?

Furthermore, I cannot see Sanzo expending the effort it would take to get Hakkai and/or Goyjo into the emotional place they would need to be in to allow themselves to be used in such a manner. Sanzo doesn't like effort and he spends too much time with these morons already anyway. Also, when would he have time to brainwash/manipulate them into letting him fuck them (I hope the pronouns aren't getting too confusing).

The whole situation puts my back up, because it seems to require that Sanzo becomes an evil, manipulative bastard who needs sex so much he has to twist the people around him to get it (which seems the opposite of non-attachment) plus the energy to make this happen, while Hakkai and Goyjo become spineless catamites with no self-respect.

Also, I keep wondering what is going on with Goku while this is going on, and feeling sorry for the poor boy who undoubtedly doesn't understand what's with all the creepy, creepy subtext.

This is not to say that all Sanzo/Hakkai or Sanzo/Goyjo fics are bad, just can we stop with the 'he's bitterly nailing both of them in an angsty and ooc way' fics? Because in my opinion, it takes way too much handwaving with characterization to make those make sense.

Comments

[twistedsheets10.livejournal.com]

When silly fangirls decided they'd make him one.

Yep, that completely threw me off, too. Physical contact is hard with him. Actual sex is a little harder. And the image of Hakkai and Goyjo as doormats are hilarious. These guys are strong individuals who have no problems expressing discontent, even with Sanzo.

besides, Sanzo should only smex Goku. Kidding.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I need build-up! Please! I'm sorry but some characters you can throw into the sack and it makes sense, but Sanzo needs chapters of plot before the slightest bit of intimacy doesn't seem ooc.

And Hakkai and Goyjo are so not the type to let themselves be taken advantage of, plus, if Hakkai is very protective of his friends, and even if SOMEHOW that situation occurred with Goyjo, can you imagine the throw-down that would occur between Hakkai and Sanzo? (Two men enter. On man leaves...)

I'm not a slasher, but even I can see that Goku would make much more sense as someone would is so desperate for approval that he wouldn't say 'no'. But then Sanzo would probably shoot himself before becoming a pedophile.

DAMN IT FANGIRLS, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK! FEED THE PLOT BUNNIES THAT MAKE ACTUAL SENSE!

[twistedsheets10.livejournal.com]

Nah. Goku would rip out Sanzo's balls if he found out he's being played. Goku may 'adore' Sanzo, but like Goyjo and Hakkai, he's not going to be a doormat. He will fight back.

Hakkai would do likewise if Sanzo did that to him and Goyjo. If you add Goku to the mix, well, let's just say it's possible those earrings of his would drop.

Hah. If you want quality Saiyuki fanfics, you could try Echoes from the West. there are some superb stuff there.

(and since when did stupid fangirls care about any other sense than their own, brilliant sense? XD)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Important part, 'found out'. I can actually easily see Sanzo and Goku having a really tweaked sexual relationship, but that's probably only because I'm tired. Plus Goku isn't a doormat.

And Hakkai is there, protecter of everyone who needs protecting ever. (It's why I love him so.)

I've done a little poking around of Echoes. (Why is there so little Yaone fic? Why? She's awesome.)

What really kills me is it wasn't a stupid fangirl. I was reading through this woman's fic archive and she's a great writer. Because her summeries didn't clearly state het, gen or slash I read a couple of slash fics (not my favorite cup of tea) and the fic was really well written. I just walked away from it and then went bzzwhat? And that wasn't the first time I've tripped over that situation, so I wanted to post about it.

[twistedsheets10.livejournal.com]

Yaone is cool. ^_^ The ones I see are usually Kou/Yaone or Hakkai/Yaone.

....don't worry, even 'great' writers make mistakes too. :D

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm a het girl, so I'd love some Hakkai/Yaone (it's been suprisingly hard to find but then again, Saiyuki IS the fandom with no het.)

Oh, god knows we all make mistakes. I just wanted to point out it wasn't a crazy fangirl who wrote it, just someone who's choices with characterization didn't agree with me. (But I've actually seen other good writers who use the same trope, so it might be really, really commen and accepted and I just don't know that.)

[enderxenocide.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree with you completely. I can't put it quite as eloquently as you can, but even as a slash fan who will read just about anything, I find that these kind of fics are so needlessly out of character, for everyone. Sanzo doesn't take shit from anyone, and neither do Gojyo and Hakkai. In fact, most of the Gojyo/Sanzo, Sanzo/Hakkai, and Sanzo/Goyjo/Hakkai fics that I've read have had both boys (for lack of a better word) teaming up to encourage Sanzo to open up and accept a little affection. It makes so much more sense to me, that those two (and Goku, for that matter) who care about the bastard so much would make the effort to initiate anything (sexual or otherwise). There shouldn't even be the need for that kind of lack of emotional attachment needed in those kind of fics.

And now for something completely different, you are getting me into HET, of all things! Not FAIR, I tell you. Not fair at all.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*SCREAMS WITH GLEE!* Oh thank god! I'm so happy to hear you're getting into het! My world is filled with sparkles and joy!

I don't know if either Hakkai or Goyjo is emotionally healty enough to say to Sanzo, 'hey, you need love and I love you' but I could see it easier than I see then both being his bitches.

[enderxenocide.livejournal.com]

hahahaha oh, so true. Although, I don't think any of the boys are quite emotionally healthy for a relationship at all, but that certainly doesn't stop me.

*twitches* You are a cruel, cruel woman and I love you for it. Will you rec me things, so I don't have to dig through the bad!fic?

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Sure! If I can. What fandom/pairing?

Also, I have tons of fic (by other people) in my memories, so that's one place to check out, especially if you want FMA fics. Also, I have several het Death Note fics in my misc fiction section.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

No, we don't let mental health interfere with the pairings here, either!

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Also, I just came across some prince of tennis icons and thought of you.

They're here: http://community.livejournal.com/kiramekicons/3750.html

Merry Christmas

[enderxenocide.livejournal.com]

Merry Christmas to you, too!

And, man, you know me too well. *grins*

Also, uh. I can't stop staring at your icon. adkldfjklfdsa

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

The Goyjo one? I uploaded it last night- I have a fic that he's in that will be posted soon, and I needed a sexy Goyjo icon, and well, what can I say, this fit the bill.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

Ow. You're so right it hurts. I think I'm kinda guilty of this myself, but when I did it it wasn't Sanzo dominating Hakkai, it was just a mutual "we're not doing anything emotional and we're not talking about it" type of thing. Now you've made me go and re-think it. -.-;

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

See, if it was a mutal thing I don't think my back would have gone up- it was the tone of Sanzo going, 'i'm doing this and you don't really get to say either yes or no.'

I can actually see something mutal happening between them that they don't discuss, but I'd need a little build-up first.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

FTR the word is trope. A troupe is a bunch of people all together for some reason.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I got called on that one already *blushes*

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

You know, the aftermath of Sanzo sleeping with one of them while not in his right mind would be very interesting if a good author wrote it but I have a feeling that's not what fandom's writing.