This Is A Trope I Could Stand To See Less Of...

[redbrunja]

Okay, you know how often times in fiction (fan or real) the healer character will come across an injured enemy and even though said enemy has tried to kill them or their loved ones before, they end up healing them?

Yeah, I'm kinda sick of that trope.

Look, not every set of characters is Zuko and Katara, and they... it was them, okay? And there was build-up, and the writing was A-class and it was just awesomeness.

But I have come across that concept so many times in fanfic, and it's starting to piss me off.

I've always hated the ideas that healers can't kill (let's be honest, they probably know the MOST ways to kill someone - and not get caught, even) or that they're somehow too morally pure to do so or that it would somehow take their authority away to heal if they committed murder. (That Edward/Winry/Scar scene in the manga that everyone loved? I hated it. Yeah, I said it.)

Now I really want to read a fic where injured evil guy (it's always a guy) is brought in front of Awesome Healer and she (it's always a she, because Hakkai already established his street cred what with those thousand murders) INSTEAD of just healing him because she's Truly A Healer is like, "Let him die. Oh, what's that, you've got a knife to my throat? Go ahead and slice, I'm not going to fix him up just so he can go find and kill my loved ones. What? Oh, I should heal him because that will make him more kindly disposed to me? *laughs* That didn't even work for Katara the Awesome. I say, let him bleed to death."

Comments

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Considering that I have have seen this cliche with her only about a billion times....

FUCK YES.

[cherryfruit.livejournal.com]

Ha! I RP Sakura a lot, and I've totally done this with her.

I think the problem is that people use healer characters as a paragon of saintliness. They care for the wounded, so they naturally love every and all living thing and have absolutely no ability to do anything mean EVER. Even if they've kicked everyone's asses to hell and back for lesser crimes, they're still the sweet little supportive character who'll bless Hitlerzilla with their healing angel's lovetouch. *gag*

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

It's used a lot because it works. But it's gotten WAY overused, and not too many people actually deal with the consequences or think about how the character would MENTALLY react to it, and use it as a short cute for romance looks over healing chakra.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

That is a good point. However, I have seen too many character who are warriors first and healers second heal enemies with barely pause, and I'm kink sick of it.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

And even if they emotionally are, like they feel they SHOULD heal everyone, or have trouble walking away from someone bleeding to death at their feet... well, there should be CONFLICT there.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Honestly, published authors are forgetting that too. I want to scream at Mercedes Lackey that you drive your protagonist up a tree and then throw rocks at them, not have someone waiting with tea and a cushion.

[mzminola.livejournal.com]

And Katara didn't actually heal Zuko, she pondered if it was possible, and there was face-touchy-ness.
Huh. Now that I think about it, Aang's the one that refused to leave unconscious Zuko to die in the snow, and he's much closer to the usual Healer type.

What about healing someone simply to torture them more?

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I've read one delightfully creepy Sakura fic wiyh her as a torturer, and it was great.

But there needs to be more healing to kill, in my book.

[pyxis-lynx.livejournal.com]

A lot of sakura/itachi fanfics that's not AU is written this way, and the reason they say is that as a medic nin, Sakura's main objective is to heal people rather than fight/eliminate missing nins even though they're right infront of her face, bleeding and nearly dead (and on some, already blind).

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

It was actually an Itachi/Sakura that prompted this, after reading it with her and Deidara, and recently, Hinata/Suigetsu.

And in the case of Itachi - it's fucking UCHIHA ITACHI. You know, the guy who mentally tortured one of her best friends and killed his whole family. I think she'd spit in his nearly blind eye, frankly.

Sakura is a NINJA FIRST; that means that she is able and willing to kill people, and I don't think them being injured would change that much WHEN THEY ARE PEOPLE SHE KNOWS WHO HAVE HURT/WILL HURT her precious people.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Or you know, heal him, fuck up his eyes, and then bury him alive.

[tobu-ishi.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* The scene with Winry worked for me because Winry isn't, fundamentally, a killer--and I think Edward was correct in assessing that it would have seriously, irrevocably Screwed Her Up.

You're totally right, though, there are plenty of other healer characters who would be quite different. If you've ever read the never-filmed Firefly scripts (I think there are two? I've read one), there's a scene where Simon Tam is under huge stress and operating on a man who might be able and willing to expose River, and has to choose whether to heal him or not, and...heck, I'll let you read it for yourself, but suffice to say I can totally see Simon making a choice to sacrifice someone to save his baby sister.

And why does the role of the paladin never get tapped? Paladins wield healing magic and they're the most likely guys (and girls) ever to tell an injured bad guy to DIAF if that's what they believe will serve the greater good. Their whole job is making that choice, to save or to slay for the sake of the world. Not so angelic, at least in the modern fluffy cherub sense and not the old-biblical flaming sword sense...

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I have read that unfilmed firefly scrip, and I really like how even Simon didn't know whether or not he'd killed someone.

*shrugs* The scene with Winry worked for me because Winry isn't, fundamentally, a killer--and I think Edward was correct in assessing that it would have seriously, irrevocably Screwed Her Up.

It didn't for me, because it was really hammered in that by killing someone SHE WOULD HAVE SOMEHOW LET HER PATIENTS DOWN which pissed me off.

[tobu-ishi.livejournal.com]

*blink* Glah, what the heck kind of translation did you read? That's a mighty butchering they pulled off. I read the Japanese version, and the Japanese dialogue doesn't go anywhere near that, though I can see how a bad translator could twist it that way.

In the Japanese version, after the heat-of-the-moment standoff and Edward nearly taking a faceful of deconstructive energy for her, she's too in shock to let go of the gun, and Edward talks her down with something like, "Winry, c'mon. It's okay to let go. Aren't these the hands you used to deliver that baby and save its mother's life? Aren't they the hands that gave me back my arm and leg? You don't have the hands of a killer, Winry, you have the hands of a healer." And she calms down enough to let go, then cries off the post-shock shakes.

And later when she calls her patients to let them know what's up and when she'll be back, the point was that they loved her and supported her no matter what. The whole place was in a shambles without her to keep the jobs in order, and Garfiel was going on about how he'd gotten to depend on her, and they were all like Take Your Time Honey, But Know We Need You And Miss You And Hope You Hurry Home. It reminded her of how much she loves doing what she does, and of the new family she's built for herself, even though she lost the old one to Scar...which is part of the other theme of that arc, breaking the cycle of violence by letting go of hate. (Which not only Winry, but Scar had to do. He could have blown Ed's skull open like an egg, but he remembered his own brother taking the hit for him and pulled his punch at the last second. They had to mutually bury the hatchet.)

It's also appealing to me, for the record, that Edward is not a hypocrite--in the manga so far, he's also struggled with the question of killing and chosen not to, repeatedly. He hasn't lost his blood innocence yet in the manga timeline, even though fighting Kimbley without using lethal force almost got him killed. This makes me so happy, because it treats the loss of a boy's blood innocence as just as important as a girl's--Arakawa has no illusions about 'feminine purity and healing' versus 'male aggression and killing' the way a lot of shounen authors do.

So! Tl;dr and all that, but wow. I want to see what translation you read. That's fricking criminal. D:

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

It was the Tokyo Pop translation. And I think I was prepped to be annoyed by the fact that in the preceeding two volumes the girls basically show up to give the guys support and then vanish, and that was already pissing me off.

[tobu-ishi.livejournal.com]

Ah, yeah. TokyoPop. I gotta say, I am a big fan of their decision to keep all the honorifics instead of translating them into the equivalent English terms like normal professional translators have to, thereby kicking off a raging phenomenon of unnecessary -chan and -kun in fanfiction.

But that's just me. ^^;

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

In general, I like their translations. Oftentimes there isn't a good translation for the suffixes, and when there is (like in Tramps Like Us) they use it.

And I really like the job they did on the Saiyuki manga.

[tobu-ishi.livejournal.com]

*nods* I'm just picky because this is what I want to do for a living, so I've dug over a lot of the different manga translation companies and found different things that bug me than would bug a normal person. ^^; TokyoPop is a little too much into the faddish look-how-much-Japanese-we-can-leave-in exoticism thing to be my favorite publisher, though their translations are serviceable and pretty accurate and they carry a lot of series that other lines might not pick up. They sporadically have a tendency to art-butcher, too, though not as bad as as lot of other publishers.

If I had my ultimate druthers, I would work for Del Ray. Their translations are generally good to lovely, they license interesting series, they don't clutter them up with too many footnotes, and they're very good about preserving print quality and cover art. Barring that, one of the smaller indie companies would be nice. ^_^

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Wow, it's cool to hear about what the different translators do differently.

[phoenix-melody.livejournal.com]

And I just think "what about Kabuto?" But then again, I guess he is a villain, so he automatically gets a pass on this trope when he's in the healer role. Except when he randomly decides to heal Hinata.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Also, he's a man, which is not insignificant. The other thing is that Hinata isn't a threat to him or his plans - they're not the same reasons NOT to heal Hinata that say, Sakura would have when confronting with any one of the Atasuki.

[phoenix-melody.livejournal.com]

Cute Hinata icon!

It's true. And yes, the fact that it's a guy makes a huge difference--as far as I remember, Kabuto is the only named, seen-on-screen male medic in the entire series. He's also evil. Coincidence?

On a random note, I think Neji would be a brilliant healer. The boy can hit tenketsu with ease--he must have the kind of fine chakra control a healer needs. He might not know the jutsu, but he undoubtedly has the skill set, especially with the Byakugan--how handy would that be for a medic? ...and now I really want to see a fic where Neji's the first aid guy in Team Gai

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

It's true. And yes, the fact that it's a guy makes a huge difference--as far as I remember, Kabuto is the only named, seen-on-screen male medic in the entire series. He's also evil. Coincidence?

I think not.

And the idea of Neji as a healer is incredibly awesometastic and I totally want to write that.

[phoenix-melody.livejournal.com]

You should!

[amaiko.livejournal.com]

It's true. And yes, the fact that it's a guy makes a huge difference--as far as I remember, Kabuto is the only named, seen-on-screen male medic in the entire series. He's also evil. Coincidence?

I guess in Kishimoto's world, male medic=unnatural, and therefore evil? :D

On a random note, I think Neji would be a brilliant healer. The boy can hit tenketsu with ease--he must have the kind of fine chakra control a healer needs. He might not know the jutsu, but he undoubtedly has the skill set, especially with the Byakugan--how handy would that be for a medic? ...and now I really want to see a fic where Neji's the first aid guy in Team Gai

In my ginormous pile of Fics I Have Yet To Write, there's one set during the awkward time when Neji and Hinata are trying to put their relationship back together post-Chuunin exam and Hinata sprains her ankle during a secret practice spar with Neji: he's the one that attempts to heal it because he's had some training. He doesn't fix it completely, but he does make the injury less severe. I love making Neji the healer. :D

On a side note, I really, really hate the "Hinata becomes a med-nin" cliche, though I will admit that I wouldn't mind as much if Kishi hadn't pulled that crap with Ino becoming a medic out of nowhere. I prefer to have Hinata never become more than moderately proficient as a healer and in the beginning, she outright sucks at it though, that's probably more due to the, ahem, "methods" of the person teaching her at the time. *points to icon*.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

My first thought on seeing that icon was 'awesome crack pairing amaiko!'

I guess in Kishimoto's world, male medic=unnatural, and therefore evil? :D

Or at least named medics are evil. You notice that there are a lot of unnamed male medics running around.

He doesn't fix it completely, but he does make the injury less severe. I love making Neji the healer. :D

That sounds so awesome.

And Hinata as a healer was at least foreshadowed with the Chuunin exams. Personally, I think Ino had two weeks of medic training, hated it, sucked at it, and then Ikibi swooped in and took her off to torture and interogatton where she shouldn't been in the first place. And I see Hinata as more of an apothocary - working with salves and potions.

[amaiko.livejournal.com]

My first thought on seeing that icon was 'awesome crack pairing amaiko!'

Yes. Yes it is. :D

I just wish I wasn't the only one writing it. :(

Or at least named medics are evil. You notice that there are a lot of unnamed male medics running around.

Yup, and there's also Kabuto's adoptive father, who was the Chief Medical Officer, though we're never given his name or any other information about him.

That sounds so awesome.

Glad you think so. :D Unfortunately, I have to finish the second half of another fic before I can even think about starting that one, because they lead directly into each other.

And Hinata as a healer was at least foreshadowed with the Chuunin exams.

Though nothing more has come of it since and frankly, I'm hoping nothing ever does. The manga doesn't need more sexism from Kishimoto female medics since it's practically a cliche at this point and because I can see people using it as yet another way to bash Hinata ("omg, she sucks so much at fighting that's why she's a medic instead!" HATE.)

Personally, I think Ino had two weeks of medic training, hated it, sucked at it, and then Ikibi swooped in and took her off to torture and interogatton where she shouldn't been in the first place.

HELL YES. Why, in the latest chapter, isn't Ino with her father, observing and learning, as he tries to extract the information from that Pain clone? It's her family's skill: she should working with her father to improve it so she can take his place in Interrogation and information gathering. Instead, she's off doing something completely irrelevant.

And I see Hinata as more of an apothocary - working with salves and potions.

*nods* I could see that.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Kishimoto never goes there with Hinata. Still, it annoys me that fanfic writers can go there because Kishimoto made Ino a medic, if that makes sense? Like, there are fics I love with Hinata as a medic and they hugely make sense, but I kinda hate that trope just on principle, now. Does that make sense?


HELL YES. Why, in the latest chapter, isn't Ino with her father, observing and learning, as he tries to extract the information from that Pain clone? It's her family's skill: she should working with her father to improve it so she can take his place in Interrogation and information gathering. Instead, she's off doing something completely irrelevant.


Yes. However, I'm just glad that Ino was in the manga again. And it's not like any of the other rookie 9 (sans Sakura and Shikamaru) were doing anything clever when Konoha attacked, so, I'll let that one go.

And pretend that Ino's dad had been giving her tutoring on her family techniques off screen.

[digthenym.livejournal.com]

I can buy (er, tolerate) it with Sakura if there is a shit load of inner debating and conflict. Even someone like Hinata is going to need to do some serious rationalization when confronted with the idea of healing someone who may be a threat to Konoha or its inhabitants.

What really gets on my nerves though, is when the character (why oh why does it ALWAYS seem to be Sakura?) heals the violent criminal so they are in fighting condition and then is quickly overpowered by StrongMale. (This always crops up in Itachi x Sakura fic) /grits teeth.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I KNOW! WHAT'S EVEN MORE ANNOYING IS WHEN SAKURA HEALS ITACHI, AND THEN DOESN'T EVEN TRY TO ESCAPE! HOW ABOUT HEALING THEM AND THEN SCREWING THEIR THEM SYNAPSIS SO THAT THEY CAN'T MOVE?

[digthenym.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY!!! Dear Yevon, let's not suspend common freaking sense here!

Sakura is A MUTHA FUCKING NINJA. She's been trained to hurt people from childhood...TYING HER UP WITH ROPE IS JUST NOT GOING TO CUT IT!

Another annoying thing: they always use the 'oh my chakra is drained' excuse. Because no ninja village would ever, EVER involve a basic hand to hand fighting/defense training program. Ever. Granted, they probably won't win with no chakra, but against rope? Freaking rope?! You've got to be kidding me...Or with Katara!capture fics, which, post Bloodbending, don't even get me started on the implausability...

Er, if you couldn't tell, this type of thing is pretty much my number one pet peeve in fiction >:/

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. It's like, Katara is TRAINED IN HAND TO HAND. She punches someone with good form and they are going to fucking FEEL it.

(My sensei was just telling be about the time a little eight year old knocked out one of the blackbelts training him - he was doing a basic punch, missed the pad, but his form was perfect and he apparently nailed the guy on the chin.)

[fani.livejournal.com]

This whole post sort of remind me of Dr. House actually. ^^ I love the fact that he hates all the stupidity of most of his patients but he does his job anyway.

That kind of "healer" character I could like. :)

[manonlechat.livejournal.com]

One of the things I absolutely loved about third-season Katara is that she was the healer in the group, and yet of all the kids she moved into the darkest moral territories.

*grumbles again about her lousy romantic resolution*

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, god, I love Katara so very much, and I adore her arc.

*tries to repress Bryke crappy romance writing*

[strange_quark]

Considering most of what I've seen of this has been Sakura/someone, I totally agree. It's absurd. She was a warrior first, why the hell would she betray her village, her friends and every single moral code she probably ever had to treat someone who'd kill her without a moment's thought?

I suppose a very clever writer could justify it for her, but it's a massively overused plot device and people always give the same stupid reason.

As someone who's thinking about med school, though, I can see the other side. You treat the patient in front of you, regardless of color, creed, age, sex, or whether or not their purpose in life is to destroy your country. John Wilkes Booth broke his leg when he killed Lincoln, and a doctor set his leg for him. Whether the doctor (whose name, interestingly, was Mudd: that's where the phrase "your name is Mudd" comes from) knew this was the man who'd shot the president was irrelevant: he has a responsibility as a doctor to treat people who come to him for help.

This is, incidentally, why I support universal health care. Turning people away at hospitals goes against the oaths you take as a doctor.

But Sakura isn't a doctor: she's a warrior for her village and her healing is simply a tool at her disposal. Using it to help the enemy is treason.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I honestly hadn't thought about the other side of it until people pointed it out, and yes, I do think doctors (and frankly, I could make the case for Sakura as a medic) should heal everyone in front of them - however, they is a HUGE different between say, healing a POW and sending them to a humane camp, and sending them back out of fight for you enemy.

I'd like to see Sakura healing someone and then fucking with their chakra or bloodline limit or whatever, so they're no longer such a threat to Konoha. Alive, yet no long a threat. And certainly not a love interest.

This is, incidentally, why I support universal health care. Turning people away at hospitals goes against the oaths you take as a doctor.

Word.

[strange_quark]

they is a HUGE different between say, healing a POW and sending them to a humane camp, and sending them back out of fight for you enemy.

I'm reminded of a scene from Saving Private Ryan, where they let that Nazi go free and he comes back in that last battle scene. Then again, we're talking different moral codes. I don't think the ethos of an American soldier can be well applied to a ninja, especially since (in the case of the Akatsuki, who I see most often in these kind of fics) the person in question is after her friend.

Although, now that I think about it, I have seen this done well. I know you don't like Itachi/Sakura, but I particularly remember Loophole, where she strikes a bargain with him that she'll heal his eyes in exchange for his help getting Sasuke back. It was pretty awesome. Then again, it's by Leafygirl, who's brilliant at using a concept in interesting and convincing ways.

I think in most cases she probably would heal an enemy under orders or extremely extenuating circumstances, but I just don't see her stumbling across someone she knows is an enemy on the road somewhere and not walking away.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I'm reminded of a scene from Saving Private Ryan, where they let that Nazi go free and he comes back in that last battle scene. Then again, we're talking different moral codes. I don't think the ethos of an American soldier can be well applied to a ninja, especially since (in the case of the Akatsuki, who I see most often in these kind of fics) the person in question is after her friend.

Yeah, and while I'm sure if I saw that movie I would agree that letting a nazi go free was the right thing to do, seeing it written out that way my makes me go, "YOU LET HIM GO SO HE COULD FIGHT YOU AGAIN? BRILLIANT MOVE, DUMBASS!"

[devimelete.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I've developed a habit clicking back when I see that any Sakura fic. I've noticed that a lot with Itachi/Sakura, and with such repetitiveness it makes me stay away from Itachi/Sakura. This is rare for me to let fandom to be completely averse to a pairing when there is something better out there, but I am not given any reason what so ever.

The only two fics that let that happen which I don't paticularly mind is Vertigo by Cynchick and Marrow by DeGlace. Vertigo pretty much acknowledges, "Oh man this is gonna bite me in the ass SO HARD," but the whole healing the enemy actually becomes the lesser of evils (so to speak) as the fic progresses.

Marrow is not exactly a healer saving an enemy and more like a really ambiguous deal with the devil so to speak: heal Kimimaro, and Sasuke will go free. I can totally imagine that Sakura would do this, even to Orochimaru since it is all for Sasuke.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, see, if it's presented as a bad choice, or even as a bargain, it is far, far different than when she heals them just because, especially when she's already been captured. It's like, no. Sakura is a fighter. Just, no.

[nimblnymph.livejournal.com]

It's funny that you said that... Have you read Duty Before Honor? It's an amazing KakaSaku fic by SilverShine, and in one of the chapters it goes into something like this. It says something like how healing people is like making a feather smooth again. You can do it, but in the process you also learn how to mess it up again.

And then Sakura seriously maimes the bad guy and saves Kakashi's ass.

If you've not read anything by SilverShine yet, ya better do it. She's incredible. And this fic is sheer awesome.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

That is actually the fic that got me into the fandom. I read it, got plotbunnied for a fic that I still haven't fucking finished and realized that I needed to actually read the manga first.

[nimblnymph.livejournal.com]

Hahahahahaha!!!!! Yeah, it kinda helps KNOWING what you're writing about, huh?

And I'm very sad to hear you've not finished the fic yet. I've missed your updates.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it was more getting the dialogue right that I worried about. Also, SilverShine doesn't write the Ino/Sakura relationship the way I see it, and it would have been a shame to screw that up.

Okay, I think you need to check my lj out more. Because I NEVER post on ff.net anymore. (Or at least, really, really rarely.) Because I've posted other fics (just not that specific one). Like, did you get a chance to read "White Flag"? Because that's kakasaku. *sigh* ff.net, why is your uploading system such a pain in the ass?