Slash & Het & Femmeslash

[redbrunja]

I had a whole bunch of friends come over for my belated birthday party, which was a blast. I'm really lucky in that my friends are friendly with each other, so if I step out for a minute I don't have to worry about anyone being left out of the conversation.

Only downside is that I'm super behind on comments, but that's a small price to pay. ^_^

And now, meta.

When people get to discussing slash and het (note: femmeslash is almost never mentioned in these discussions) there will be, at some point, at statement to the effect that 'slash and het are equally problematic' meaning that arguing that one is inherently better is pointless. The fact that neither genre is more feminist or subversive by default is true but what doesn't get mentioned is that het and slash and femmeslash are troublesome and empowering in different ways.

Before I begin, a few notes:

-no genre is quantitatively better or worse than any other. Romance novels are not less worth-while than lit novels, nor are they automatically written with less skill.

-every genre (especially in fanfic) is largely composed of horrible stories.

-not every story or fanfic says or is trying to say something subversive or culturally relevant. This is okay. Stories can be neutral. They can just be there to be PWP, they can just be there to watch the characters have adventures.

That said-

At its best, slash is both subversive and feminist, a genre written by women for women and comprised of narratives removed from the heteronormative culture standards.

At its worst, slash is misogynistic and forces blatantly sexist roles on the characters involved, while erasing and vilifying women and femininity. Additionally, it can be portray men in unrealistic and objectifying ways.

At its best, het is a way to celebrate relationships between equals as well as deconstruct and explore traditional and nontraditional gender roles. Also, it can be used to forfront forefront female characters who are often not given the same screentime as their male counterparts.

At it's worst, het supports sexist dynamics and glorifies the male point of view, as well as reinforcing the idea that all women must be in a relationship to be happy, that that The Man You Love > Everything Else In Your Life.

At it's best, femmeslash gives even more screen time and attention to the ladies and allows authors to explore issues that might feel unnatural or out of character for a male character to be party to. Additionally, because femmeslash is less popular within the fandom, I have noticed a trend for there to be more well-written fics when looked at proportionally.

At its worst, it objectifies women and supports the idea that lesbians do not get happily ever afters.
supports the idea that lesbian leads to death.

Your thoughts?

[ETA: I'VE EDITED THIS A BIT TO REFLECT POINTS THAT COMMENTATORS MENTIONED, TO CLARIFY SOME OF MY THOUGHTS, AND ADD THINGS I FORGOT.]

Comments

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

I've been reading your comments, and they are very fascinating with the level and thought you go into it. That's always great to see on the internet.

Now...you mention the rape trope in old romance novels, and how you understand it given the time period. That, to me, seems like an example of female writers stretching the boundaries and using an unconventional method, similar to the history of yaoi. That seems to be even more damaging culturally than the yaoi/slash stories. "No means yes" has been a problem in our society because of it.

Girls get together and talk about men. Although it seems like a generalization to assume that becomes the fixation of their lives. Men ARE a topic of conversation because they are often a topic of interest. That doesn't strike me as wrong, but perfectly natural (please, don't take that to mean that I think homosexuality/bisexuality is unnatural, but heterosexuality is equally natural). And I DON'T mean this as an attack, but it seems presumptuous to assume that because focus is shifted to men it's unhealthy behavior for girls. It seems better than leaving the topic as some mysterious thing, and for some I can see how yaoi could be a good outlet for that kind of conversation. That doesn't mean it's right that teenagers are pushed to that because of society's view on sexuality, but yaoi seems like a way of bypassing it instead of reinforcing it.

I understand where you're coming from when you say that yaoi's not necessarily feminist in and of itself, but what is unclear to me is whether or not you're saying it's automatically anti-feminist.

Also, you responded to a post of mine on the "Yaoi/Slash Misogyny Bingo" post that Redbrunja made two posts ago...I understand that some of the arguments that girls use to explain their attraction to yaoi can be problematic, however, some seemed valid. That bingo sheet almost seemed to claim that if a female fanfic writer doesn't like writing about female characters in a sexual sense, then that points to internal misogyny while the same would not be true for a man. To me, that seems horribly unfair. Men are allowed to explore sex through f/f relationships, but it's misogyny for girls do it through m/m. If most of the characters I write are male and I make the CHOICE to do so, does that mean I'm not a feminist? I don't think so, because the very definition of feminist is the ability to make the choice.

I apologize if any of this post came across as confrontational, I'm just a little confused as to the point you're trying to make.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I think where you're uncertain about my comments is that you seem to be reading it as "not something" means "the oppositie of something. Saying that women talking about men and their secuality and how they're interesting isn't automatically feminist (as fandom tends to portray it) is not saying that it's misogynistic, nor does it mean that a person whose main interest in fandom is m/m slash can't be feminist.

And keep in mind that when men and women express interests, they're expressing them from completely different sets of cultural baggage and expectations, just like a man cooking (that is, doing something traditionally regarded as a female role) carries a completely different weight, and is received far differently, from a female undercover agent (a traditionally male role.) For that matter, compare the number of successful movies about men bonding with or caring for children, or having to adjust to some degree of domesticity that requires them, to some degree, to take up a traditionally female role or task to the number of suscessful movies about female spies, action heroines (overtly secualized or otherwise), female pirates, female buddy cops, and female adventurers. That is, women taking on traditionally male roles and narratives. The simple fact is that male development, exploration, and appropriation is still considered to be the norm, and the default, while female development, exploration and appropriation is treated as an afterthought.

ETA: Another thing to keep in mind is that slash (as manifested in fandom) is a sexual kink or interest combined with a character and/or narrative interest. Feminism is a way of thinking and approaching life. There is, in essence, absolutely no correlation between the two. They can coexist in harmony, they can coexist in antagonism, and they can exist in the complete absence of the other. It's the individual (or, more often, I think, fandom hivemind) that connects them.