So Damn Easy To Love

[redbrunja]

 

"Why Don't You Love Me" - Beyoncé from Beyoncé on Vimeo.

Conforms to damaging sexual norms/feminist critique of the most common ways women try to please men and their inherent fail? Discuss.

Comments

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Good song, although I really dislike the singer's voice.

[sekaigo.livejournal.com]

Hm. I honestly can't decide one way or another, although I'm sort of leaning toward the latter. I'd like to hear what she has to say about the message behind it.

In any case... ow. There's something very raw and very painful about it, which is an interesting effect given how perfectly put-together she is. And I have to say, I'm a fan of the song.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I know! I learn toward the latter but the relentless sexualization of the singer makes me question it.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Black women aren't allowed to exist in pop without constant sexualization.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Silly me, treating black women as fully-rounded human beings.

Oh, pop music.

Frankly, though, is ANY woman allowed to exist in music without constant sexualization? I mean, MAYBE in country...

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Considerably less so, at least, in country. It is a problem with all women in music, especially pop and rap, but it's far more concentrated on black women.

[mewsrissicat.livejournal.com]

Gut level says that it's both pastiche and critique, not reinforcement of socio-sexual norms.

The pastiche is of the book the spawned the Anti-Feminist movement, "The Total Woman". (If you haven't read it, you might recall the gist of it from the movie Fried Green Tomatoes. My step Mom gave it to me to read at 16.) Effectively, the upshot of the book is: See to his every physical need, and be his every sexual fantasy, and your man will love you. Neglect him, and you're the one to blame if he strays. Talk about damaging... subsume everything you are or need to validate someone else's existance... *grrrr*

I also noted as I watched that the chirpy housewive's expressions occasionally slipped and drifted into surly.

Ultimately, though, despite the sexy-perky act... she's angry that he he doesn't love her despite all she gave up "for" him. The futility of trying to force someone to love you by shoe-horning yourself into the fantasy sex roles couldn't be clearer.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Effectively, the upshot of the book is: See to his every physical need, and be his every sexual fantasy, and your man will love you. Neglect him, and you're the one to blame if he strays. Talk about damaging... subsume everything you are or need to validate someone else's existance... *grrrr*

Oh, hell no.

I also noted as I watched that the chirpy housewive's expressions occasionally slipped and drifted into surly.

Yep, the vid provides an enhancement of the themes already faintly present in the song. However, the way Beyouncee is so sexualized makes me feel she's undercutting her own message.

[mewsrissicat.livejournal.com]

I remember reading it and thinking, "What? WHAT?" Because even at 16, I knew that a good marriage (something my parents certainly did NOT have) wasn't made by turning yourself into your man's door mat.

I'm sure that the book was written as backlash the feminism movement. But, WHUT...

Is she undercutting it? Because as hyper-sexualized as she appears in the vid - she still ends up broken on the floor.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

And consistently more miserable and "ragged" throughout the video. It's very much a steady, constant wearing down and destructive spiral.

[mewsrissicat.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. There's a not so subtle undercurrent of anger and despair at the concept of using sex and sexuality to to hold onto someone... (domestic whoredom, anyone?)... and ultimately failing.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Well, I think so, but clearly not everyone agrees. And as I rewatch, it feels more and more feminist.

[mildmay.livejournal.com]

It seems to pretty obviously be a critique to me. The message seems to be that the attitude being presented is damaging.

I liked it.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't know whether I like it or not. Maybe a few more viewings will settle my opinion.

[mildmay.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed the contrast of the sort of nostalgic kind of images and clothes combined with the rawness of the presentation. From my perspective it was taking classic kinds of homemaker images from the 50's and 60's and turning them on their face and presenting them in a gritty, often unpleasant way. Like showing the ugly face of the picturesque fantasy.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

As I rewatch, it's growing on me.

[wicked-seraph.livejournal.com]

Whether she meant to merely poke fun at such damaging ideas, or to seriously criticise them is uncertain, but I don't think that she's actually buying into the "pleasing mate = everyone should be happy" notion.

That being said, I truly hope my hope is not misplaced.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I prefer to view it as the spiritual successor to this:



Also, Beyonce can never be blonde again.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

See, this is a lot more successful for me.

And work about Beyonce never beeing blonde. She looks SO much more attractive in this, imho.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Beyonce is freaking gorgeous, but is also pretty much the poster girl for black women who have to "Europeanize" their appearances. here's a pic of her from, I think, 2003: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6240/beyonce3mg.jpg

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*shakes head*

Such a shame.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I noticed how pale she was in this video, and I wondered if they deliberately shot her to look more white as part of the character.

[cynchick.livejournal.com]

Hmm, maybe he doesn't love her because she's not a real person and is more of a prepackaged cutout?

Seriously though, I think Beyonce is being critical here, but I agree that her sexualization negates the message. Even more than that, I only recognize the real intent of the song because as a feminist I know how to spot those things. Most girls who see/hear this will not, they will take it at surface value and as prescriptive. Young and old, but especially young. She's being too subtle for the mass audience, and therefore she's actually contradicting herself.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

She's being too subtle for the mass audience, and therefore she's actually contradicting herself.

I think this is definitely part of it. Especially because I have felt that 'I'm lovable/why don't people love me?' feeling, so I could easily read the song as straight-up speaking to that.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Most girls who see/hear this will not, they will take it at surface value and as prescriptive

I thought about that as I watched the video; even though she ends the song in a critical manner, it doesn't really undo all the choruses before it.

On the other hand, perhaps the frustration apparent in the song is designed to give women something to identify with? Because even though the song seems "prescriptive" as you call it, I think the frustration is evident throughout, and some of that negativity will come through no matter the subtlety of the feminist critique. She's clearly not HAPPY that she's changing for the man and it's not working. I wouldn't totally discount teens' ability to pick up on that core emotional message.

I find this less damaging than Kelly Clarkson's "Independent" song, which pisses me off because it's about 180 degrees opposite of this message: the woman has everything and feels strong and competent, until she is sideswiped by love and never knew what she was missing, the cold-hearted job-holding shrew. She loved herself and lived her own life! OBVIOUSLY SHE DIDN'T KNOW HOW HORRIBLE AND LONELY SHE WAS.

This B song seems to be about a person after that, when she gives everything and still isn't loved, only now she's lost her self-respect too.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I hate that I love Miss Independent. Such a negative message! So fucking catchy!

[hungrytiger11.livejournal.com]

I thought it was pretty obviously a critique of the stereotypes/cultural norms women are told will make a man love them. There was that repeated like about " I make me so damn easy to love" So the woman is always changing herself. The over-sexed outfits actually seemed to be working to that critique too, being so over the top as to be farces. It surprised me to read comments on Youtube showing people didn't take it as farce or there to make a point.

Of course, I think her choice to constantly sexualize the singer/character is both meant to point out the issues but also to help sell. I'm not sure if that is undermining the message or her trying to have her cake and eat it too by getting the people who like the message and the costumes will attract some of those who don't....

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if that is undermining the message or her trying to have her cake and eat it too by getting the people who like the message and the costumes will attract some of those who don't....

I think it undermines the message, personally, and I think it's clearly a result of the pressed on women in music to be super-sexy at all times.

[fonsetorigo.livejournal.com]

the latter for me.

'cause in the end, I think Beyonce has a bit more respect.

And call me reading to much into it, but she's been making film clips with Lady Gaga, Gaga's fucked up messages might of rubbed off?

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Do you feel Gaga's messages are fucked up? Personally, while I don't think "Telephone"s vid worked the way she wanted it too, I approve of "Bad Romance."

[fonsetorigo.livejournal.com]

Noooo, I quiet like them. Actually scratch that, Lady Gaga is my hero. 83. You'll have to excuse my really poor word choice, I've been throwing up everything lately, and things have been coming out worse then I mean them Px

I think I meant the sheer Nightmare fuel of them. It's quiet fucked up in that sense, because you are right I don't think Telephone video worked quiet how she wanted but... it is quiet sickening, all those people dead for one man? The product endorsement makes it worse.

[fonsetorigo.livejournal.com]

I am also quietly hoping thats his car in the beginning, and thats her cutting the break~

But I think that is again to much Lady Gaga

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Let's hope.


You'll have to excuse my really poor word choice, I've been throwing up everything lately, and things have been coming out worse then I mean them Px

Oh, poor baby! That will totally scramble your brains.

t's quiet fucked up in that sense, because you are right I don't think Telephone video worked quiet how she wanted but... it is quiet sickening, all those people dead for one man? The product endorsement makes it worse.

Totally. And Miracle Whip? Do you know how disgusting that is?

[fonsetorigo.livejournal.com]

Oh, poor baby! That will totally scramble your brains

The worst of its finally moving on, I kept down food all day yesterday 83.

Bahaha, we don't have Miracle Whip over here. I think I should be glad though. A lot of the product placement was lost on... not american's. I saw a list of them, and sat there confused as to what most of them were. P:

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Yeah, even us Yanks were scratching our heads over WHY the miracle whip (seriously, it's a horrible kind of mayonnaise) was there, but at least we were familiar with the cultural familiarity of it.

[fonsetorigo.livejournal.com]

Bahaha, maybe its what actually killed him? Cause those sammiches were SMOTHERED in it.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Highly probable.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

For me it's tricky, because there's the song and there's the imagery, and I mostly paid attention to the imagery, ignoring most of the verses.

I'm going to go with "mostly a feminist critique" for the video, with a side caveat of the fact that Beyonce seems to be close to naked in most of the videos I've seen lately and this was no exception, which is a sexist requirement of women in music.

Overall? I liked it. I think it benefited from the fact that we see a descent of the characters as their efforts to be perfect stereotypes fall apart from inherent silliness. I'm not a big fan of the fact that the song discusses a woman who apparently has everything yet is still obsessed about not getting a man's approval, yet I appreciated that she ended the song with "Well, maybe you're dumb."

ETA: I like Beyonce's sense of silly theater; she pulls it off.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, Beyonce has a GREAT sense of theater.

And I think you pinpointed something in separating the imagery from the lyrics - because the images DO emphasize something that is only faintly apparent from the lyrics.

[terenewen.livejournal.com]

I'm going to cry feminist.

Throughout the whole song (though I may have been influenced by the comments here) I felt like she was saying, "Here I am, I'm beautiful and talented and you're stupid for not seeing it".
With video, that's when the "changing to please men" element comes into it for me... and I think she's treating that idea with a great amount of hostility. The perfect homemaker women in the video are awkward and unglamorous, nothing that anyone would aspire to be.

By contrast, I think in this video she's at her most beautiful when she's screaming at him on the phone. Sure, it's a breakdown moment, and she's ending up broken, but it seems to me like the rock bottom that the character will have to hit to wake up and move on. Optimist power!

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

I definitely think that is the message Beyonce is aiming for.

[numara.livejournal.com]

i definitely got the latter out of this video. to me, it was about how the man she wants doesn't want to be with her because she isn't conventionally a good housewife/doesn't know how to play the stereotypical role of a woman despite being being beautiful and successful in other areas. which, according to the song, makes him "plain dumb".