I Cannot Believe I Fucking Picked Up The Phone

[redbrunja]

So my mom called to read me part of an article she was reading regarding weight loss which said, in short, a billion years of evolution is working against you when you try to lose weight and calorie counting/dieting tends to not work in the long term. Which is all stuff I know. However, what the fuck else am I supposed to do? Because when I don't count calories, I a.) gain weight and b.) make up 'deals' regarding what I can eat and when in a (vain) effort to have control over my weight, so telling me to stop counting calories is like telling me to take off a parachute and jump off a building - oh, don't worry, you'll figure out how to fly on the way down.

And I know my mom is telling me this because she's worried about me starving myself but frankly, my (unhealthy, admittedly) response to that article was, 'well, given that I never learned how to eat like a normal person, I guess I am just going to have to accept that I will be keeping track of every fucking bite of food I eat for the rest of my entire life.'

Comments

[spirited-lizard.livejournal.com]

If I may ask, while growing up, have you had shoved food into you because the family said you have to eat enough [and more], or the other way around, that you were told not to eat too much? For me, it was the first, and it's kind of still like that. My mother cooks way too much and my father keeps telling her to cook rather too much than too little. And if there are no leftovers, he's like, "We can be thankful, no one took too much of this or that, or it wouldn't have been enough." Even though, we are all stuffed. And if I don't eat much, he's like, "What? Wasn't it good?" Which is so not the point, you know? We could do one or two days without eating so much, but my dad and my brother always wants lots, and always meat. 'Cause god forbit, without meat, it's no real meal. :-\

I never really tried a diet, and I don't really believe in counting calories. Maybe because I know that I don't eat much, but I know that I should do some kind of exercise, which I don't do at the moment. And I guess it sounds odd if I said that I'm too embarrassed to go to a gym. I could do some workout at home, but then I'd had to deal with my family's stupid sayings. :( IDK.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

If I may ask, while growing up, have you had shoved food into you because the family said you have to eat enough [and more], or the other way around, that you were told not to eat too much?

Neither, actually, I was mostly told to make sure I ate veggies and had food of several different colors on my plate. It was in college that my (all naturally very thin and non-athletic) made comments about how much food I ate. While always eating dessert. It was like, "I'm taller, curvier, and go to the gym every day, there is a reason I eat the way that I do."

And I guess it sounds odd if I said that I'm too embarrassed to go to a gym. I could do some workout at home, but then I'd had to deal with my family's stupid sayings. :( IDK.


That doesn't sound odd at all. Especially give that it sounds like your family has some screwy ideas about food and exercise.

[spirited-lizard.livejournal.com]

Here, it has always been about meat, and I don't even like it that much. :-\ I'm not a vegetarian, but I also don't need meat every day, and the family just doesn't get it. Sadly.

It's a bit hard to explain how they tick, but they're just so old-school. My father always explains that they have always cooked like that because back then, they needed the calories for strength, as they were working on fields. I get that, but we're not doing that anymore, so we should change that in our cooking, too, I think.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I get that, but we're not doing that anymore, so we should change that in our cooking, too, I think.

Absolutely.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

And I guess it sounds odd if I said that I'm too embarrassed to go to a gym. I could do some workout at home, but then I'd had to deal with my family's stupid sayings.

THIS! I hate the idea of going to the gym, and the idea of my family monitoring my lifestyle just makes it WORSE.

[spirited-lizard.livejournal.com]

Also, a gym is expensive. I think, I could just go for walks or runs here, but I can already hear them saying something like, "What? Want to lose weight all or a sudden? How come? Did you realize you can't go on like that?" :(

I know that I can't go on like that, I don't want to. I don't want to look the way I do, but it's hard, too, and a little support would be nice. :(

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

ugh, my sympathies.

One of my driving motivations to get out of my aunt's house and back in a place of my own, is that I can use call display to not talk to my mother, and not have to worry about The Aunt picking up anyway.

Be yourself.

[natural-blue-26.livejournal.com]

Ugh. So sorry. :( My impression is that counting calories *can* work for some people if it's combined with reasonable exercise/etc though. Makes sense that being aware of what your input is should be a better idea than not paying attention at all anyways. My fiancé lost a sizable amount of weight in order to join the Air Force over seven plus months OCD calorie counting and running insane amounts of miles everyday. IMO (and thankfully also his now) he took it too far the other direction, before easing back to just eating healthy and adding on muscle instead.

On the other hand, my mother has huge issues with people that aren't at or under weight; psychologically I assume this comes from the fact that my grandmother has always struggled with her own weight and the relationship between them has more issues than you can shake a stick at. Anyways, I yo-yo'd between anorexia and bulimia in high school do to the massive 'pinch an inch and you're fat' body image issues I picked up at home/to keep her happy. I'm 5' 11" and I spent most of high school around 115lbs/a size 4, which I've since noticed looking back at old photos is disturbingly emaciated/generally unhealthy looking. (Seriously, I had no curves that women are supposed to have on me at all. I'm so much happier/healthier now (years later) it's not even funny.

Nothing like well intentioned mothers gone wrong in my case, right? :P

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

You know, a LOT of people I know have a similar story to your and your boyfriend - going to one extreme or the other before they manage to find a way to eat/exercise in moderation.

[crickets.livejournal.com]

There are diets that are not based around counting calories. It can come into play but isn't the basis for the way of eating. Maybe that's what she is trying to say? I don't know? If what you're doing is working for you then I say just ignore her. If it's not, then maybe she wasn't exactly saying "don't diet at all" (unless she was.)

The one diet that I tried once that seemed to really work is low-glycemic index and a lot of the very popular diets (like paleolithic aka cave-man diet) are actually low-glycemic (incidentally) and so my suspicion is that that's one of the major reasons why they work.

To make it sound super boring and NOT AT ALL something you would ever want to try, the idea behind a low GI diet is that it basically regulates how quickly and how high your blood sugar rises, and blood sugar regulation makes your metabolism work better and that's the whole reason the diet legitimately works. 100% science. The reason I personally found it "easier" to do is because you can easily alter the GI of a food by pairing it with different types of foods, or even by cooking it differently. The trouble for most people is, however, it's definitely a mostly low-carb diet. (I was saved when I wanted carbs by using sourdough bread, egg noodles, al dente spaghetti noodles, new potatoes, sweet potatoes, wild and basmati rice, which are all, I think medium glycemic, some may actually be low -- and for me personally, they were super easy substitutions to make.)

The lack of sugar though just made me sad. But right now I have all but kicked my sugar addiction and rarely have it at all, so this could be a good time to start this diet again. WOW how did I turn this around and make it about me instead of about you? Anyway, back to sugar. Dark chocolate was okay, but it wasn't advocated to eat tons of it. Just a couple of ounces a day. Not my favorite. But fruit dipped in it is a whole other matter entirely. Delish! As with any diet, treats are permitted in moderation, but with this one I think these treats can make less of an impact because like I said you can easily alter the GI by altering what you pair it with. For example if you occassionally have a small dessert at the end of a meal, as long as you eat it IMMEDIATELY after your dinner or what-have-you and as long as your dinner has been low-medium glycemic, then your blood sugar should not spike.

ETA: One random bit of sciencey info. Scientists have no idea why, but foods paired with acid (say lemon juice for example) tend to have a lower GI than the same food without it. No clue what causes it. It's just a mystery of science. So if you sprinkle some lemon over your dinner, the whole meal will have (at least a slightly) lower GI value. Weird! (ETA again, this is the same reason sourdough is better for you, because of the acid produced during the fermenting process.)

WOW TMI. But what I mean to say is, according to what I've read, cal counting is not always the most effective way to do it. So hopefully your mom wasn't advocating that you "give up." Maybe she just wanted you to change the way you were thinking.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

There are diets that are not based around counting calories. It can come into play but isn't the basis for the way of eating. Maybe that's what she is trying to say? I don't know? If what you're doing is working for you then I say just ignore her. If it's not, then maybe she wasn't exactly saying "don't diet at all" (unless she was.)

What my mom was ACTUALLY saying was, 'I'm concerned you're not eating enough nutrient-dense food and are starving yourself.' What I HEARD was, 'science says you're fucked.'

The reason I personally found it "easier" to do is because you can easily alter the GI of a food by pairing it with different types of foods, or even by cooking it differently.

That is really interesting. And I'm always interested in ways to make my body run more like a perfect machine.

Scientists have no idea why, but foods paired with acid (say lemon juice for example) tend to have a lower GI than the same food without it. No clue what causes it. It's just a mystery of science. So if you sprinkle some lemon over your dinner, the whole meal will have (at least a slightly) lower GI value. Weird!

That is weird. And remember, this is LJ, so there's no such this as TMI (okay, there is, but you haven't hit that line).

[greynonentity.livejournal.com]

....I'm type one diabetic and this post kind of looks like my life. o__O;;

J-Just popping by to say that.

*scuttles away*

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

Just commenting because I've actually been flirting with the Paleolithic diet lately (more meat and fish, more veggies, fewer grains), but I can't quite bring myself to entirely cut out rice, bread, and pasta, just shift the ratio.

The GI diet you mention actually sounds a lot like what I've been trying to do as far as balancing it goes. What resources were you using? And why aren't you on the diet any longer, if you don't mind my asking? I'm genuinely curious.

[meitah.livejournal.com]

Keeping track of what you eat is hard, if only because you have to eat so often. (Stupid body, I fed you yesterday.)

But the upside is that keeping track forces you to be better about what you eat.

Not that I can really talk. Both of my parents are type 2 diabetics and my freshman 15 turned into 30 sometime during finals.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

You know, I don't find tracking my calories too onerous - what drives me crazy is the thought that I will be doing so every day for the rest of my life.

[meitah.livejournal.com]

It could be so much worse. My ima has to give herself an injection of insulin everyday, and she does not like needles.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, that sucks epically.

[greynonentity.livejournal.com]

To be honest, keeping track of what you eat is hard no matter if you're trying to lose/gain/maintain weight. I don't really know a whole lot about trying to lose weight, and I've never really gone on a diet, but I keep track of what I eat and count sugar/carbohydrates because of my diabetes. But I think the thing with diets (for what the worth of an opinion of someone who has never really been on one - or at least on a diet which purports to lose weight) is that they're hard for anyone to maintain and that there are many setbacks and also that there is no one way to diet that is one hundred percent successful.

If... I would hazard a guess, I would think that maybe it is similar to taking care of diabetes. You have to have so much insulin with what you eat to balance your glucose, and too much or too little will devastate you. The same thing happens if you have too much/too little food with your insulin. And it's a matter of finding your balance and what foods are best for what you want to do.

Ummm, but that is only an uneducated analogy from someone who doesn't really know anything about diets.

...And... um, if you really want to know... I keep track of every fucking bite of food I eat and have been since I was old enough to keep track of my diabetes by myself and sometimes I still mess the fuck up. So it's not like, if you decide to keep track of everything, that you'd be alone or freakish in doing so. I think... that once you get in the habit of doing something, that perhaps it is easier? But I don't want to make assumptions about diets or your dieting or your feelings either.

Apologies for maybe seeming like I'm talking about myself. I am not trying to.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

But I think the thing with diets (for what the worth of an opinion of someone who has never really been on one - or at least on a diet which purports to lose weight) is that they're hard for anyone to maintain and that there are many setbacks and also that there is no one way to diet that is one hundred percent successful.

Very true. The basics is eat really well (depending on the specifics of what your body needs) and exercise. In practice, that can be a bitch to do consistently.

I keep track of every fucking bite of food I eat and have been since I was old enough to keep track of my diabetes by myself and sometimes I still mess the fuck up. So it's not like, if you decide to keep track of everything, that you'd be alone or freakish in doing so. I think... that once you get in the habit of doing something, that perhaps it is easier? But I don't want to make assumptions about diets or your dieting or your feelings either.


At this point, I've tracked my food for long enough that in the regular course of things it's not that big of a deal... it can just get really frustrating when I'm trying very hard to lose weigh and it's just not happening, and I reputable sources telling me that what I'm doing is wrong, without actually giving me a different path to follow.

[sharkflip.livejournal.com]

If there's one thing I've learned about eating and weight and blah blah blah, it's that everyone is different and what works for one person won't necessarily work for another one. Keep doing what you're doing, if it works for you.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Very true. Thanks.

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

I hear you. Growing up, food and dieting was always a really big issue in my house. My dad took it to special levels of control and pretension - if he saw me eating something he didn't like, he'd make a comment. Me snacking on bread would inevitably lead to him smacking his stomach and going, "You know why they call this the breadbasket, right? Because you get fat if you eat lots of bread". He would then proceed to send me articles or make me read articles to get me to stop doing what he wanted me to stop doing; generally, this made me want to refuse out of sheer spite of being manipulated. In the same breath, he would use food as a reward for exercise and encourage me to eat large portions. He constantly made fun of my mother's weight as a "way to motivate her to exercise". Which, too this day, makes me sick with rage whenever I think about it; because her weight is a really sore issue with her and she tries so hard to lose it, which is kind of hard to do considering she was the only one bringing in an income the entire time and spending most of her day at work.

Even when I was in better shape, he would call me fat when we were arguing, and when we weren't arguing he would make comments like "You're capable of being so thin, you just haven't been motivated". I can't count how many times he made comments like, "You and your mom can go off and be the fat sisters for all I care." (This was also in response to me spending increased time with her). "You're inhaling your food." and yet "Ah, are those all the mashed potatoes you're gonna have?" Plus, he would always go on these odd diets - eventually working his way around to this soupy monstrosity we refer to as "Soilent Green", while, at the same time, binging on chips, nuts, and various snack foods until they made him sick. Whenever he felt like picking a fight with me (usually related to some other issue), he would take issue with what I was eating. For example, for a time in high school, I had a salad every day after school - one day he just decided to start yelling at me about the dressing. "Oh well do you know what's in the dressing?" "No. There's really not that much." blah blah blah. Things eventually snowballed to a full blown, "You're not watching what you eat and you're going to fucking die because you don't pay attention". Rinse and repeat.

So basically dieting and things relating to food were really fucked up in my home growing up, because my dad is a fucking control freak and needs to control everything. Then shit went down. Basically for about a year and a half now I've been eating whatever the fuck I want - cake, pie, pizza, sugared drinks, coffee, doughnuts. Which isn't healthy by any means, but it was definitely my response to anxiety and borderline situational depression. Because I had such bad memories associated with it, I kind of threw it all out the window for a while. When I cooked on my own I ate okay - usually veggies, meat/fish, and some sort of pasta, but at school, or after an argument or a particularly bad day, I'd just cram sugar and fat in until I felt better. For a while I could kind of manage it, because I was exercising a lot and the anxiety was also decreasing my actual appetite, so I was eating less, and then I stopped playing sports and exercising, because those were also things he actively made unfun experiences and potential kindling for a way to demean me depending on his mood.

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

(cont.) Right now, I'm trying to work my way back into a more healthy lifestyle independent of the BS he spews. I just want to figure it out for myself and find something that works for me. Ironically, mom and I tend to eat considerably better now than we did back then, because we're actually able to cook without being berated or demeaned or have to deal with any sort of a snide comment. But it's slow going and I know my health has deteriorated since I started my little rebellion. My new thing is more veggies, fish/meat/protein, and smaller portions of carbohydrates.

As for the article your mom sent - I think the first thing you need to ask yourself is who wrote the article. Not all science is equal, and some people, especially the kind that tend to get published in popular magazines, can be very wrong. Looking at their credentials is important. Also important is looking at whether or not it makes sense for you. Some people need calorie counting as a way to stay focused and keep track. I know for a fact that for some people it does work and they can attribute keeping track like that to a lot of their weight loss. Calorie counting without taking into account the nutritional value of the foods your eating isn't good either, so I think it can only be used in conjunction with a basic understanding of food groups. For me, calorie counting turns into something more like, "Okay, I didn't have a huge breakfast so I can have chocolate cake for lunch", since I basically end up treating it more like Cap and Trade than a lifestyle.

I call BS on the bit about dieting. Of course, it depends on the diet, But watching what you eat and controlling what you eat is fundamental to being healthy, so I really don't know what point they were trying to make there, and it definitely damages the writer's credibility in my eyes.

My point, I guess, is that weight loss and food are personal things. There's a real science to nutrition, and I think it's important to study it for yourself, take that into account, and come up with the system that works best for you and your situation. If calorie counting works, keep it up. If there's a diet or another way of keeping track of what you eat (that's also healthy), then try that! I really, really know how dismal and frustrating and daunting it can seem.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh my fucking god, with your father, I can't imagine NOT having huge, huge issues and hang-ups related to food. Please tell me you are no longer living with him.

He would then proceed to send me articles or make me read articles to get me to stop doing what he wanted me to stop doing; generally, this made me want to refuse out of sheer spite of being manipulated.

Completely rational response, imho.

Right now, I'm trying to work my way back into a more healthy lifestyle independent of the BS he spews. I just want to figure it out for myself and find something that works for me. Ironically, mom and I tend to eat considerably better now than we did back then, because we're actually able to cook without being berated or demeaned or have to deal with any sort of a snide comment. But it's slow going and I know my health has deteriorated since I started my little rebellion. My new thing is more veggies, fish/meat/protein, and smaller portions of carbohydrates.

That's good. Speaking personally, one HUGE thing I love about living alone is that I'm the one who controls what kind of food is the my apartment and I don't have to deal with roommates making the place smell like french fries or cookies or whatever.

Of course, it depends on the diet, But watching what you eat and controlling what you eat is fundamental to being healthy, so I really don't know what point they were trying to make there, and it definitely damages the writer's credibility in my eyes.

The point there were making is that often, restricting calories slows down the metabolism, because the body thinks it's in a famine. (Which is information I've heard from several reputable sources.) Of course, there are ways to be mindful of what you eat without slowing your metabolism, but it is something to keep in mind.

[whisperingwasp.livejournal.com]

Oh I so empathise with this. My mum was pointing my attention to a documentary where it said that it's more difficult for some people to lose weight than others because some people have a 'hunger hormone' and I was just thinking: "are you trying to depress me?" I know she was trying to make me feel better but I also interpreted it as: 'science says you're fucked.'

I think some people in science department say a lot stuff about what we eat and then changes its mind a lot the next minute (e.g. eating too many apples will give you cancer (I actually read an article that argued this), apples will keep the doctor away, etc.), so I wouldn't pay too much attention to that article. If keeping track of what you eat means that you're getting a balanced diet that keeps you at a healthy weight, I'd stick with what you're doing.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

because some people have a 'hunger hormone' and I was just thinking: "are you trying to depress me?" I know she was trying to make me feel better but I also interpreted it as: 'science says you're fucked.'

Is there any other way to read it, really?

[whisperingwasp.livejournal.com]

*giggle snorts* Guess not.

I'll keep fighting science anyway. There's no harm setting yourself a challenge.