redbrunja | pull up in your fast car, whistling my name

pull up in your fast car, whistling my name

I'm finally, finally starting to feel better, enough that I am going to answer some of the great ship questions I was asked about two weeks ago.

ladymercury_10 asked: How about Dick/Babs, and why you don't ship them in YJ (and who you ship them with instead, if applicable).

The biggest reason I don't ship Dick/Babs in YJ is because Babs ( like most of the season two additions) isn't really a character. We get no time on her and pretty much only know her as the chick in a bat suit. ADDITIONALLY, I am LEAST interested in Dick/Babs when Babs is Batgirl - I'm way more invested in the relationship between Oracle/Nightwing.

errant_shadows asked: What about your first ever ship? (Maybe something before you even knew what shipping was.)

Were they canon? OTP? Do you still ship them? Did you ever write fic for them? (<== links please, if it's online)

And what about the pairing appealed to your freshly fangirling heart?

I just talked about my first pairing here. Aeriel/Irrylath was a quintessential bad boy/good girl pairing. She saved him when no one else could or would, she loved him when she thought that he hated her, he loved her when he thought he was incapable of love. He loved her and couldn’t admit to his affection when she was conscious. He was in awe of her growing power and selfless sense of duty and she was completely oblivious to it. They were married. She exchanged her heart for his so that he could live. After finallyhaving one night of passion where Irrylath confesses his feelings, Aeriel goes off to live as a powerful, goddess-like figure with her BFF.It was very traumatic.

phemyscira asked: Top five OTPs of 2013?

Any ship that you think you may be very excited about in 2014? (e.g. because of upcoming new instalments to a current fandom, fandoms you may be interested in, etc.)

My answer to this question is different than it was a week ago, but currently, it's:

Lizzie/Darcy
Wally/Artemis
Lydia/Stiles
Jessica Drew/Carol Danvers
Clint/Natasha

As for upcoming ships… I just got hooked on Alice/Knave (Once Upon A Time), so I feel like that’s the ship that’s starting this year off. I’m excited about Winter Soldier for reasons that boil down to ‘Natasha fucking Romanoff’ but I’m curious to see what I feel about Steve/Natasha (will that finally switch from a friendship to something romantic in my mind) or how hard (if at all) I’ll ship Bucky/Natasha.

catteo asked me: Top 5 OTPs of ALL TIME and why. Preferably with awesome gifs!

(I've talked about all this ships and why I love them before, so I just decided to go with awesome gifs. But take this moment as me encouraging you to read/watch all of the media these couples come from.)

Kate/Curren, The Kate Daniels Series

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Katniss/Peeta, The Hunger Games

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Katara/Zuko

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Clint/Natasha

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Anya/Dimitri

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hungrytiger11 asked me: Top Five Canon Ships that really shouldn't exist (let alone be canon):

Katara/Aang
every ship that is not Tyler/Caroline in The Vampire Diaries
Laurel/Oliver, Arrow
Ben/Kitty, Kitty & The Midnight Hour
Sherlock/Watson, BBC’s Sherlock

topazera asked me: If you were suddenly put in charge of ouatiw, how would you handle Alice/Knave in canon? What would you do with Cyrus? Or alternatively, how would you rework things if you had the reins from the start?

I'll be honest, I actually really like a lot of things about Cyrus as a character and a romantic lead for Alice, and I honestly think it's delightful that Alice's story is about her badass roadtrip to save her boyfriend.

THAT SAID.

Honestly, I'd kill Cyrus off. Jafar discovers that Cyrus is no longer a genie and no one knows where the bottle with Will is. He kills Cyrus in a fit of rage. In Alice's following attempt to kill Jafar, she breaks his staff, releasing Amara. Alice's motivation switches from 'rescue Cyrus' to 'get Will back and defeat Jafar'.

Team Fashionably Deadly Ladies (Alice, Amara, Anastasia) gets Will in back in short order (while this is happening, there are flashbacks to the time when Alice got Will's heart back). Once Will he found, he and Anastasia remain broken up, because he can't ever trust her again and honestly, doesn't want to.

Team Fashionably Deadly Ladies + Will goes to fight Jafar, which they do. Probably Jafar ends up as a genie to get Will back to normal.

Amara and Anastasia go off to rebuilt Anastasia castle together, Jafar in his bottle with them.

Alice puts Will's heart back in his chest in a scene that is not literally a sex scene in the way that Willow and Tara's magic casting scenes together were not literally sex scenes, if you know what I mean. Plus, there would be this whole subtext-y conversation where Alice encourages Will to put his heart back and is basically saying that loving someone is worth it, even if you lose them, and you can love again.

A little at loose ends, Will and Alice decide to go on a roadtrip through the US (avoiding Maine). Episode 13 ends with Alice in a convertible, speeding down the high-way. She's laughing, the wind blowing her hair about, the radio's blasting, and Will is turned to her, talking her through shifting gears and grinning at her.

qualapec asked me: Is there something you never expected to ship going into a piece of media (or were actively against ahead of time) but actually really enjoyed once you saw the canon?

No.

ever_neutral asked: What about fave non-canon ship/s? SHOULD THEY HAVE BEEN CANON? Discuss.

My top five non canon ships are Clint/Natasha, Zuko/Katara, Carol Danvers/Jessica Drew, Nick/Cassie, Steve/Darcy.

Clint/Natasha: No. In my ideal MCU-verse, Natasha will have an explicitly romantic relationship with Bucky in the past (in the Red Room) and in the present day she’ll help rescue him but there will be no reunion kisses or anything like that. Avengers 2 will involve more of what we got in Avengers 1 with regards to Clint/Nat: some really great emotional interaction that can be read as platonic or romantic.

Zuko/Katara: YES.

Carol/Jessica. Yes. Considering the long and intimate friendship between these two, it would be SO EASY to slide these two into a relationship. I mean, presently, Carol and Jess need to rebuild their relationship (because of memory loss on Carol’s part) but any time before that, they could have just started kissing and it would have worked.

Nick/Cassie. As soon as Dakota Fanning is old enough to film sex scenes with Chris Evans (which she totally is now), yes.

Steve/Darcy. Not really? I mean, I don’t know that the kind of relationship I’d like to see between Steve and Darcy would fit really well within the MCU, to be honest. But I wouldn’t say no to a scene of Maria and Darcy oogling Cap and maybe comparing notes between him and Thor. And maybe one of Steve getting adorably flustered by Darcy.

scorpiod1 asked me: Are there OT3s you are fond of?

Only theoretically. I have some fondness for the idea of Hermione/Ron/Harry and Bucky/Steve/Natasha but I don't feel particularly FANNISH about them, and I've never felt the need to write anyone for those threesomes or seek out OT3 fanworks.

In general, actually, I think fandom has some rose-colored goggles on as far as threesomes go. I think fandom tends to over-estimate how easy a threesome is, the characters who would actually say yes to that kind of relationship, and when a threesome would or WOULD NOT solve textual disagreements between characters.

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Glad you're feeling a bit better!

It's true, Babs is more of a background character in YJ.

That YJ season two has two many characters it does nothing with is one of my perennial rants.

Do you think they would have been able to make more of them if they'd had another season?

In the 'anything is possible' universe, yes. In the universe I live in, there is nothing they could have done that would justify or make me stop being mad about new characters supplanting characters I already loved.

lol, I am barely familiar with the ships you've put in answer to my question, but carry on. I'll have to think long and hard about my own top five...

In general, actually, I think fandom has some rose-colored goggles on as far as threesomes go. I think fandom tends to over-estimate how easy a threesome is, the characters who would actually say yes to that kind of relationship, and when a threesome would or WOULD NOT solve textual disagreements between characters.
Seriously. There is something kinda wonky/problematic about saying that group sex is the answer to everything.

In general, actually, I think fandom has some rose-colored goggles on as far as threesomes go. I think fandom tends to over-estimate how easy a threesome is, the characters who would actually say yes to that kind of relationship, and when a threesome would or WOULD NOT solve textual disagreements between characters.
Seriously. There is something kinda wonky/problematic about saying that group sex is the answer to everything.

Yep. Like, I get it, especially in reaction to like, ship wars and stuff, but I often think that the suggestion discounts the actual characters involved OR the fannish desire to see a couple together. Because reading about A/B/C is NOT going to have the same reaction that reading about A/B does, you know?

Also, great Katniss icon.

Glad you're feeling a bit better, sounds like you were really knocked out this time! ♥

Ugh, I am so into your ouatiw answer! I agree, there's actually a lot about Cyrus I dig and on paper, it totally seems like something I would ship. But Alice/Knave exists which has several of the same things I like (dudes taking a backseat to their ladies' desires, roadtripping) and ALSO has that snark edge and a toooon of chemistry and the delicious, delicious backstory of his heart. It's, like, a constant game of 'see and raise' for things I'm into! Cyrus is her genie, there to serves her wishes... OH, but Will has literally given up his desires to see hers fulfilled and feels like he owes her a debt and is a knave in her service~ Anyway, what I am saying is I phrased my question the way I did because I have been mentally circling around trying to figure out what to do with Cyrus this whole time. I would really love to see the scenario you proposed play out and I can just see that ending roadtrip in my head! ♥ Seriously though, even if canon doesn't ship Alice/Knave, I will be seriously disappointed if the heart return isn't innuendo laden majesty. There is no other way it could go!! AND MORE AMARA PLEASE, YES.

Also, I enjoyed your answer about what OTPs should and should not be canon a lot. I think we all have things we ship that we don't actually want to see in the source material and I find that topic super interesting. With you completely on Nick/Cassie. :DD (And also on "every ship that is not Tyler/Caroline in The Vampire Diaries" in another answer and that Zuko/Katara gif, damn! never forget XD)

Edited 2014-01-10 02:08 (UTC)

I was. Sunday-Wednesday I was pretty much just lying on my bed, waiting for tomorrow and wondering what I had ever done to be punished so.

But Alice/Knave exists which has several of the same things I like (dudes taking a backseat to their ladies' desires, roadtripping) and ALSO has that snark edge and a toooon of chemistry and the delicious, delicious backstory of his heart. It's, like, a constant game of 'see and raise' for things I'm into!

AGREED SO HARD. Like, the snark! The longing looks Will is pretty much constantly sending her!

OH, but Will has literally given up his desires to see hers fulfilled and feels like he owes her a debt and is a knave in her service~ Anyway, what I am saying

SPEAKING OF DUDES IN SERVICE TO LADIES, you need to read Sabriel by Garth Nix and then The Wizard Hunters by Martha Wells. Right now.

Seriously though, even if canon doesn't ship Alice/Knave, I will be seriously disappointed if the heart return isn't innuendo laden majesty.

I am waiting on pins and needles for that scene and I VERY MUCH hope it involves Alice and not Anastasia.

Also, I enjoyed your answer about what OTPs should and should not be canon a lot. I think we all have things we ship that we don't actually want to see in the source material and I find that topic super interesting.

It is. Sometimes as much as you love a pairing you know it will just imbalance a show or not work with the tone or what's already text.

The longing looks Will is pretty much constantly sending her!
Ohhhhhhh, yes. If the production team really did want us to read this relationship as basically siblings or whatever, they really should have told that boy to cut down on the soulful gazing. XD

I have read and adore Sabriel!! I should really do a reread, I have only read that series once! And years ago now! I've never even heard of The Wizard Hunters though, thanks for the rec! I will read this dynamic in all the ways. Dudes, please service your ladies. ♥ *opens library catalog site*

I am waiting on pins and needles for that scene and I VERY MUCH hope it involves Alice and not Anastasia.
Oh right, I had almost blocked out that possibility. But we have always heard about the return of his heart in context to Alice, please give us that much, show! I am SO hoping for Will/Anastasia to be beyond repair. Not because I don't find them interesting, I do and I think Anastasia has the potential for more story-wise. But it has so much more punch if they go with not all relationships can be fixed, as much as you might want them to be. Sometimes broken things stay broken. Honestly, I am not sure what the show is thinking re: them, I actually have never watched original flavor OuaT so I don't know how much they are into giving everyone a Happily Ever After.

If the production team really did want us to read this relationship as basically siblings or whatever, they really should have told that boy to cut down on the soulful gazing. XD

Exactly.

I am waiting on pins and needles for that scene and I VERY MUCH hope it involves Alice and not Anastasia.
Oh right, I had almost blocked out that possibility.

I had until I wrote that comment.

But we have always heard about the return of his heart in context to Alice, please give us that much, show!

Exactly. Will losing/regaining his heart has always been so tied to Alice, it would be super weird for it to suddenly be about Anastasia imho.

Honestly, I am not sure what the show is thinking re: them, I actually have never watched original flavor OuaT so I don't know how much they are into giving everyone a Happily Ever After.

They're super-into it, to the point of horrible writing choices.

Katara/Aang
every ship that is not Tyler/Caroline in The Vampire Diaries
Laurel/Oliver, Arrow
Ben/Kitty, Kitty & The Midnight Hour
Sherlock/Watson, BBC’s Sherlock

LMAO, Perfect Answer TBH. :D

Good to hear you've improved. It sounds like the flu really messed you up.

The Katniss/Peeta and Anya/Dimitri gifs are adorable! I (figuratively) fanned myself over the Zutara one.

I don't have strong ship leanings either way for OUATIW, but I really like your scenario. Anastasia is interesting to me, and I like the idea of her not regaining Will's trust (now I'm thinking of how I would love that storyline for any number of m/f romances where it's the guy who's lost the woman's trust.) And Amara! I would love her getting out of the fridge - if that's what you call it when the woman doesn't matter to anyone except the guy who killed her, I see it that way - and getting vengeance against Jafar. The final roadtrip image is now in my head, and it's really sweet.

Never thought about ships I think could/should have been canon versus those I don't even though I love them, but that's an interesting distinction.

Threesomes, definitely. I end up going 'threesome!' automatically at love triangles now, but I think for plenty of characters it wouldn't be their first choice at the very least, and I don't remember ever feeling strongly for it fanfic, though I've enjoyed it.

Good to hear you've improved. It sounds like the flu really messed you up.

Oh, man, it was awful.

(now I'm thinking of how I would love that storyline for any number of m/f romances where it's the guy who's lost the woman's trust.)

Oh, god yes. There are WAY too many fictional guys who are forgiven for things they shouldn't be forgiven for.

Definitely agree with you on fandom's rose-coloured goggles on threesomes. I get that it's a response to frustration with love triangles and ship wars (it's certainly when I've said it), but beyond joking around I think many people don't put enough thought into how they would actually work, and how if characters have issues group sex wouldn't be a magic fix. I've seen plenty of polyamorous relationships that had issues with jealousy and distrust (I think fandom also paints a too rosy picture of polyamory), and while it makes sense for some characters, it wouldn't make sense for others. I've enjoying OT3s for porn now and then, but beyond that I've yet to see an OT3 fic I found really convincing.

I get that it's a response to frustration with love triangles and ship wars (it's certainly when I've said it)

Yep, I think this is a lot of people's motivations.

but beyond joking around I think many people don't put enough thought into how they would actually work, and how if characters have issues group sex wouldn't be a magic fix. I've seen plenty of polyamorous relationships that had issues with jealousy and distrust (I think fandom also paints a too rosy picture of polyamory), and while it makes sense for some characters, it wouldn't make sense for others.

The specifics are escaping me at the moment, but I remember coming across a couple really popular OT3s and going, 'you know, AT LEAST one person here reads to me as someone who WOULD NOT like to share.' Which I think a lot of people ignore.

On your comments about whether non-canon ships should have been canon, seriously, if there had been sequels to Push, it would have been harder for canon to go 'Nothing to see here' around Nick and Cassie.

And I would just be so happy if Darcy just turned up and bounced off some of the Avengers. Possibly almost as gleeful as the Anya/Dimitri gif, which I loved.

, if there had been sequels to Push, it would have been harder for canon to go 'Nothing to see here' around Nick and Cassie.

You know, I honestly don't think they were, like, at all? I mean, the sex scene in Push that was supposed to be Totally Happy had sad music playing and was interspliced with scenes of Cassie getting drunk, like... I don't know what you THINK you're implying, but...

I smirked when you said Sherlock/Watson shouldn't be canon.

It really shouldn't.

Especially given how shitty/manipulative Sherlock is to Watson.

That's a good point about threesomes. I read a threesome fanfic a couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it because it addressed some of the jealousy issues I'm pretty sure would occur between the characters if they ever did enter into a consensual threesome.

I smirked when you said Sherlock/Watson shouldn't be canon.

God, this pairing is all over my dash the last couple of weeks and it's driving me crazy.

I take it some of the blogs you follow ship the pairing? I've only seen posts about Watson/Sherlock criticising how toxic the relationship is.

Some do, and honestly just seeing Benedict C’s face at this point is annoying.

As someone else already said, they really do need to install face recognition on tumblr saviour or x-kit. Sometimes typing in key words to tumblr saviour isn't enough.

That's the next step, unquestionably.

I feel the same about Katniss/Peeta tbh. And most of your top OTPs of all time, except for Kate/Curren because I don't know that series. ALSO AGREED on if Nick/Cassie and Zuko/Katara should be canon.

In general, actually, I think fandom has some rose-colored goggles on as far as threesomes go. I think fandom tends to over-estimate how easy a threesome is, the characters who would actually say yes to that kind of relationship, and when a threesome would or WOULD NOT solve textual disagreements between characters.

Oh man, I agree with this a lot? Because I ADORE threesomes and OT3s but I really like long slow burn OT3 fic. And most writers just open with established relationship or have people fall into bed easily and skip it over most of the development or I just don't really buy it (basically I think most writers are lazy :///). Most of the time, I need the development in order to care. I mean I like fic where three characters just decide to have group sex one night, that can have its merits, but as an actual poly triad, that takes WORK. Like I totally agree a majority of threesomes wouldn't solve actual disagreements with the characters, some might make it worse--which in my opinion, is kind of the fun? In terms of writing and reading it. LIKE MORE CONFLICT YEAH.

I kinda actually started to hate the "just have a threesome" as an answer to ship wars, because yeah I am all for resolving ship wars with threesomes. I've suggested it before in semi-jest, because I dislike shipwars a lot and I usually end up shipping both sides of the ship war. But it's a vaguely facetious statement about half of the time, and too many people act like it's a real solution. like, sometimes I don't WANT to ship a threesome, I just want to ship these two people in the ship, I don't have to add the other person just to promote some weird fandom peace or whatever.

I've suggested it before in semi-jest, because I dislike shipwars a lot and I usually end up shipping both sides of the ship war.

This is exactly it, and while I’ve also started to be frustrated with people going "THREESOME". Because, if you really want A/B, A/B/C is not going to satisfy you, ESPECIALLY if (as often is the case) there is something about A/C that doesn’t work for you, or you haaaaaaate C beyond all reason, you know?

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pull up in your fast car, whistling my name

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