I Am A Delicate Blossom, Unsuited For Public Transportation

[redbrunja]

Took the train back to college.

Everything was fine, and the train even got in early, but I have to admit, I am totally spoiled from having a car (because of mom's car breaking down, I don't have a car at the moment, although that might change tomorrow). See, I don't like, you know, waiting (especially when it's cold and I forgot my jacket) and I took my huge suitcase because, you know, I thought that I would be driving back, and I just get so impatient when I have to, like, wait while other people get off the bus and how the bus doesn't deposit me directly at my front door.

Also, did I completely miss something while not reading Bleach, but do Ishida and Orihime like each other? Interact at all? (Context is #119)

Comments

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Tite Kubo is an evil tease who hints at anything he thinks the fans may like eith nointention (as far as we know) of ever following through on it, thus resulting in massive "THIS IS/WILL BE CANON!" factions.

Which is only the most waste-of-time, meaningless debate ever.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

If there was anything to solidly back up any claims of canon? I'd see where they were coming from. This is pretty much "A and B looked at each other in episode 12 and B watched A leave the room in episide 16, so they're canon."

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

If there was anything to solidly back up any claims of canon?

Except that it is such a subject measuring stick. For example, Zuko and Katara? Had WAY more subtext and hints that they (could possibly be) canon then Tonks and Lupin did.

But I get so pissed off at the canon/not canon debate because it comes with such a huge value judgement (canon is better) and I feel it misses the point (character interaction and potential character interaction.)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

It's possible that going in knowing there was a huge following influenced me, but throughout the first two seasons, i got more and more confused as to why Zuko/Katara was a huge pairing. Every interaction they had made it seem less and less likely to me. Can their character types work as a pairing? Yes. But when applied to the actual characters, it makes no sense at all to me.

See, you see the canon/not canon as a value judgement that canon is better, but if you look around fandom as a whole, removed from individual property and pairing roles, canon is the one that's looked down on. Individual elements (pairing, certain properties) will swing either way, especially depending on what part you hang out with, but fandom as a whole looks down on canon as oppressive and secondary.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Well, from all my experiences in fandom, I have noticed a definite trend where people argue over which pairing is/will be canon, and it is clear that having the author's stamp of approval is prized.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I've seen more claims of it being oppressive. And "will be canon"...has no resemblance to canon, really. It's more claiming a brain trust with the author. (Granted, my thing is that I just do not care about fanon in most cases because I'd rather dissect text and what thew author is saying than what they could be saying, and because i'm huge on context, so i largely try to ignore the most rabid of both sides unless they're annoying me.)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

We're obviously hanging out in different corners of fandom. THat is just about the opposite of my experience.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Part of it is hanging out in different places. (I have yet to see a fandom where looking past the surface didn't just make me roll my eyes at best, so I mostly have the shared-fandom things like F!S, hated_character, metafandom, fanficrants, etc., and people I know, and trailing their comments back to sources, etc. My nerves can't handle the mass fandom. From what I can tell,though, you dive right in to fandom.) But another thing is that, in general you (universal) seem to notice what "the other side" says more than what "your side" says. (And I really hate that it has to be "sides.")

Really, I don't care for most of the "canon canon canon" that I see elsewhere myself, because it interprets can as "my pairing of choice" as opposed to the text as a whole. (Most Katara/Aang fen comments about Zuko/Katara I've seen, for example, focus on the fact that it isn't Katara/Aang, instead of the larger picture involving her loyalties, how she would deal with a seemingly-patriarchal society, his biases[I'm specifically thinking of the "peasant" comment here] his goals and responsibilities [I don't think it's ever been a question that he would eventually be a Fire Lord] the fact that the entire "Gaang" needs her, not just Aang, etc. I'm not talking about any problems with Zuko/Katara here, but the fact that there's a lot more canon involved than who she'd be making out with.)

If it makes sense, I fail to see the difference between shipping the canon pairing because it's the canon pairing, and shipping a fanon pairing. (Which might be hypocritical of me, as I have trouble getting into things where there's an Official Pairing if I can't support it, but I don't always ship them. Like, I liked Sam/Jack in SG-1 from the start, but didn't ship it until around season 4-5. And it's almost impossible for me to ship in romance-centric things, for whatever reason, even if I really like the pairing/story.)

ETA: Just realized I worded part of that very badly. (It's 3 am, please forgive me.) What I mean by "I fail to see the difference between shipping the canon pairing because it's the canon pairing, and shipping a fanon pairing" is that both, as near as I can tell, revolve around wanting an OTP. If you ship Katara/Aang (to stick with Avatar) because you want an OTP and it's what's in front of you, how is it different from shipping Zuko/Katara because you want an OTP, and like the characters? (Or Katara/Mai or Zuko/Aang?)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Really, I don't care for most of the "canon canon canon" that I see elsewhere myself, because it interprets can as "my pairing of choice" as opposed to the text as a whole.

Very good point.

If it makes sense, I fail to see the difference between shipping the canon pairing because it's the canon pairing, and shipping a fanon pairing

Actually, could you explain this a bit more? Because I know you don't watch/read a show if you don't like the main pairing.

(Also, no one ever admits to shipping it because it's canon. Frankly, I ship just about equally canon and fanon, so it's all character dynamics and potential to me. )

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Just that both (as near as I can tell) are focused on having an OTP.

I don't need to like the canon pairing so much as I have difficulty if I dislike it. But a lot of that is because i'm big on relationships in general, and don't do well when there are important relationships that rub me wrong. It's just that the ones that do rub me wrong tend to be romantic ones. (For non-romantic example, possibly more than anything else, the sheer disrespect the men in SGA showed to Elizabeth-who was supposedly their friend in addition to their boss-is what pissed me off. I'm also really big on respect in general, and when pairings annoy me, it's usually because of a respect issue. See: Special A. I probably could have handled it if he had indicated that he respected her, but instead, his disrespect was part of his True Love. And even though I actually dislike the pairing in general-there are others in the show I do like, though-I can handle Heero/Relena because there is eventually respect there, weird as it is. In Heroes, I pretty much hate every romantic pairing in the show except D.L./Nikki. I don't particularly like that pairing a lot, either, but I don't mind it because D.L. is the only guy who treats his S.O. with respect-well, Nathan kinda does, but he also cheated on her with a random stranger 5 minutes after talking about how great she was-and accepts that she may have had to do things while he was gone, and he doesn't judge her for that. The respect thing is also why I can never completely figure out how I feel about Mal/Inara.)

I do know some people who ship because it's canon. In general, though, they seem to stick to more romance-centric canons (shoujo romance, kdramas, etc.) so I suppose it does make sense there. But I do see people who are pretty clearly just shipping because it's the canon pairing, even if they admit it. People who don't ever ship can pairings seem to be more open about it, for whatever reason.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

So, I'm curious now, what are your thoughts on Mal/Inara?

(I will say that I think Whedon managed the tightrope of having them -especially Mal- not respect the other's job, but respect the person.)

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

See, that's kind of it. I do think Mal loves Inara, that's never been a question for me. Mal respects Inara as a person, but not as a professional. Inara would never ask Mal to give up being a captain, Mal Mal would expect-demand-that she give up being a Companion. To Mal, Inara is a woman who could do better than being a whore, and that's the only way he'll see her profession. To Inara, however, it's all about the art and the sanctuary and companionship she gives people. The sex is just a nice addition. I think Inara would give that up for Mal, and not regret doing so, but I don't think she'd ever really be happy because Mal would never see it as her giving something up for him, but as his having rescued her.

SERENITY SPOILERS!

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

*nods*

That's why her as a teacher works so well - because she'd no longer directly sleeping with men, so Mal could stand it, but she is still working, and deciding to teach was a choice she made for her, and not Mal.

Re: SERENITY SPOILERS!

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

That was actually a petpeeve of mine, becaus we know his sleeping with her friend is what pushed her to leave the ship, and it felt too close to saying she had a to sacrifice to be good enough for him.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Okay, that makes more sense.