When Did Bill Willingham Start Hating His Main Characters?

[redbrunja]

I just finished Fables volume 7, aka the last one the library has, and I'm left wondering,

When Did Bill Willingham Start Hating His Main Characters?

I mean, seriously, in the last two books we've spent more time with Rose Red than we have with Snow White and Bigby combined. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd really like to actually see the next stage of that relationship, or hell, just spent some time with the two people who spend five volumes kicking ass and taking names.

Also, Willingham has some really rigid ideas about gender.

Comments

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, god, poor Snow. I wonder what/if Bigby knows about that, and his response.

Yeah, I was kinda pissed at Rose for that one - not only to cheat on her sister but to blame her for it and then spend the next five centuries pissed off because big sis is more popular while doing nothing of worth herself... Rose really annoys me until she becomes responsible for the Farm.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

I think he does. He's had a few centuries to pick up on hints here and there, though I doubt she's told anyone directly. Noting that it especially pains her -- even if she doesn't show it -- when certain comments are made about the dwarfs, that sort of thing. He probably wouldn't bring it up, knowing that it'd only bring up painful memories for her.

The discussion of the OGN was very shippy; Charming wasn't very understanding about Snow's murdering streak, and Snow blames herself for the divorce in a way because, in a sense, she betrayed his trust by doing the killing behind his back. Had she married Bigby back then, he'd have known right away, given her more help with the lessons, and helped her cover her tracks. He'd understand that the reasons were something she would only discuss if she felt like it, and that revenge is something to be done personally.

Spending five centuries acting in a way that will most upset Snow -- Snow mostly being upset because she knew her sister could do better, and wanted the best for Rose? Geez. But yeah, she did improve at that point. It was great for the short time that they were working opposite each other -- Snow running Fabletown in the city, Rose in charge at the Farm. Sisters sharing what they had and all that.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

The discussion of the OGN was very shippy

When did this happen again? Because I don't remember it at all. But yes, Bigby is so perfect for Snow in so many ways.

Yeah, Rose Red struck me as really petty, and vindictive. I was almost sorry when she turned out to be alive in the first book, although that was a neat resolution to the 'murderer.' And when they were working as each others opposite numbers it was just great.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Ah, sorry -- the one on the Fables board. It's the best official discussion area for Fables out there (the alternative being the DC forums, this doesn't neccessarily say much, but the fact that I have mod control helps . . ), but I find myself seeking other areas to discuss Fables openly without having the urge to quietly censor my comments with the knowledge that Bill Willingham will be reading them. Otherwise he'll make a snide comment about beating a dead horse or something and . . . Fables is inherently awesome in theory. This much is true. Also that I babble.

A lot of ships out there go on about how 'Opposites attract'. Snow and Bigby aren't opposites; they're adjacent to each other. Not identical, but not polar. They work together well, they compliment each other. Bigby helps give Snow strength and Snow helps keep Bigby under control by making him want to be rather than forcing him in any way. That works really well, I have to say.

*nodnod* Though I wonder what she went through while Snow was off being traumatized. It's never even been hinted at.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, knowing the author is around kinda puts the kibosh on getting to rant the way you want to.

They're adjacent to each other That's a great way to describe it. By, when snow was off being tramatized, do you mean when Snow was with the dwarfs? Because, yeah, we haven't even gotten a hint of what happened back then.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Indeed. And if you get too uppity, he'll ban you. So I'm trying to walk the straight and narrow and work on fanfic, since the universe is more awesome than what he's doing with it.

And I think that that's the best type of relationship; If you're identical, you'll share strengths, but also share weaknesses, and the whole won't be greater than the sum of its parts. If you're complete opposites, there might be strong passion and so forth, but that's not the sort of relationship that lasts. To have someone who makes you stronger, and who is strengthened by you in turn . . . that's the best you can ask for.

Yep. Going through a psychologically taxing time will understandably make someone self-centered. If they both went through horrible times, neither one would have given too much thought to what the other went through, and if they both kept it to themselves, they'd both assume that the other had it far easier than they did.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

It was especially leave your self-centered when you have no idea anyone else suffered - in your head, you're the only victem in the whole world.

Oh, what program did you use to open that cbr program? Because my computer is clueless.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

CDisplay Comic Reader (http://www.geocities.com/davidayton/CDisplay). It's simple yet very nifty.

*nodnod* Trauma does that to you. I have a theory that Snow took the poisoned apple willingly from her stepmother; she knew who she was, had a decent idea of her intentions, and ate it anyway. She had been given no reason to hope of rescue, and thinking of the rest of the world would only leave her feeling even more bitter, and facing more dissapointment when no help came.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Oh -- and though my computer is still in for repairs, and thus all my files are (AGH) still inacessable, I came across a torrent for the OGN here (http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1123001/3298184/). The site's good, and the seeding goes pretty quickly.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

What on earth is you computer getting, a complete bone marrow transplate? You must be going insane without your computer (or at least I would be.)

Thanks for the link, by the way, the torrent's downloading nice and quick.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

*mourns* The hard drive is dying. The news came in this morning. They're going to recover as much data as they can, though. I'll let you know if I can get it.

Also? Dialup SUCKS.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

things of dial up. *wimphers* *has totally been spoiled by high speed internet.*

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

So have I. I was thinking of downloading OpenOffice, since that's the program I'm used to using for writing fic on, and that's what I'll need to open my old files if/when they're recovered. 98MB never looked so intimidating.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, ouch. I remember when it took 1-2 hours to download a movie trailers and then I got high speed internet and was like - my god, you can see it buffering (actually, when I first found out about online trailers, I thought you had to keep hitting the play button to get it to load - I think I spent an entire evening reading a book and clicking on the play button to watch the trailer for lord of the rings. *was once a complete neyophte.*)

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Yeah. If you try to do anything else while something's downloading -- or uploading -- it prevents you from so much as checking your email while it's at it. *sigh* Don't worry, we all went through newbie phases. Back in '99, I hadn't even grasped the concept of usernames on a message board and accidentally used someone else's because I thought it was cool.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Glad I'm not the only one who was a moron when she was first leaning the computer.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Everyone does it at some point, but most people deny it. Usually because they abandoned their first usernames at some point. Trial and error is the only way you can really improve, in the areas of the internet that you can't pick up from some instruction manual.

Also: I like the new layout! Though the long threads get incredibly narrow.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I learned more from trail and error, as well as having someone super good with compters in the whole, then I ever did from a book. Just the nature of the game.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

And yes, killed the old user names is one way to keep your new rep nice and clean.

I wonder if I can find a way to fix the narrow threads....

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Hm. Well, I'm sticking with clicking the 'View the thread starting from this comment' link in the notification, for now. That works.