Fail, Slash Fangirls, Fail

[redbrunja]

You know what I keep hearing? What pisses me off like no other?

The slasher pov that it is impossible to write a male/female relationship that is equal.

Fuck that.

If you want to write about boys sexing each other, fine, but don't flat-out state that it is impossible for a fictionally heterosexual relationship to ever be equal, as well as implying that every single real world straight relationship is inequal to boot.

Comments

[meitah.livejournal.com]

Yes!

Ladies, teh cock is not that magical. It's not even strictly necessary for sex. Just because your daddies never loved you because you weren't born with a y-chromosome, doesn't mean that you or the rest of us women are inferior. And, for the love of god, keep your paternal abandonment issues out of my fandom.

[mistaria.livejournal.com]

Thank you! ::claps::

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

Yeah.

I have no idea what the connection is between not having a healthy relationship with your father and a mystification with men = depletion of personal female value.

Maybe the reason the penis is so mysterious is because it's an image that girls are sequestered from on cultural reflex?

[meitah.livejournal.com]

Maybe the reason the penis is so mysterious is because it's an image that girls are sequestered from on cultural reflex?

Definitely.

And the father thing is basic Freudian psychology. Our opposite-gender parent gives us our picture for what people of that gender are supposed to be like, and supposedly defines our self-image a bit more than the other parent. So women whose fathers were misogynistic and dismissive towards them are more likely to have those (skewed) values and to view themselves and all women as being less than men. These women are also more likely to look for similar values in potential mates.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I have to say, I get really, really nervy about talking about people's probably relationships with their fathers based on fandom opinions.

[meitah.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* Fandom opinions are manifestations of core beliefs, which themselves are largely the product of how we were raised and who raised us. (And genetics. It's actually kind of frightening how much those control our non-physical traits.)

But I understand the nerves, I think. It really isn't my place to comment on other people's familial relationships, especially when I know nothing about them and I'm just making assumptions. (Not to mention that Freudian psych is pure squick.)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's when people start making assumptions not just about the person's beliefs (which, they've given us reasonable evidence for) but their personal life, that I get nervous about it.

(Not to mention that Freudian psych is pure squick.)

Yep.

[nimblnymph.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... interesting.

Are you talking about the... shit, what is it ... Antigone complex? I think that's it anyway.

See, I always thought it was more that a child would look for a partner that bore similar traits to the parent of the opposite sex -- which meant they wanted to have sex with that parent, or something like that.

Of course, this is just going off what I remember of it. I kinda zoned out on the Freud talk. Dude was messed up and had no business playing with people's heads when his own was a playground of jacked-uppery. Not to mention, I think you were helping me with a psych project not too long ago ... so chances are I'll probably defer to you on this one.

[meitah.livejournal.com]

See, I always thought it was more that a child would look for a partner that bore similar traits to the parent of the opposite sex -- which meant they wanted to have sex with that parent, or something like that.

I learned that it was both that and that the opposite sex parent has slightly more influence over a child than the other parent.

The Freud talk is one of the better ones to zone out on. It's... disturbing to think about. And it makes you wonder about Freud's relationship with his own mother and his daughter, Anna, who continued his research.

No problem! It was a lot of fun. But I think my words should be taken with a grain of salt. I grew up around psych people, but I've only taken two formal classes in it. Everything else I learned at the age of five with my mom when she was studying. (Though I was apparently disturbingly good at behavioral modification, as my dad really should have noticed.)

[nimblnymph.livejournal.com]

"The Freud talk is one of the better ones to zone out on."

I think he had some good BASE ideas, but the man was entirely too preoccupied with sex and was more about (it seems to me) finding PROBLEMS than solutions.

[meitah.livejournal.com]

Indeed. He's a good base, but he's too single-issue to be anything more than a base. Yes, parents and sex are two huge things in psych, but they aren't everything, and no one wants to think of those two words in the same sentence. Except maybe Freud. Squick.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I agree. Also, snarkly, I have to note that most of his ideas are impossible to test effectively.

[hungrytiger11.livejournal.com]

I always feel there are several important carvats to throw out whenever you are talking about Freud. First, the society he was a part of was enormously repressed, especially sexually. Second, he mostly treated people with hysteria and things that genuniely had to do with sexual repression (men with the "glove syndrome" where they couldn't feel their hand below the glove line because they were trying to suppress a sexual urge to rub one off, for example). Therefore, Freud's pool of research is horribly skewed. Third, looking at any pysch theory you want to see both if there's a lot written about it (indicating it is considered a valid idea to investigate by peers) and if the theory holds up in real life tests and case studies. Freud does have a ton of people researching his views, but his theories are mostly debunked (not all, though the antigone/oepdieus complex is).

Still, he's pretty important to pop culture; his ideas have been infused in all sorts of literature and music etc. He's also important because his ideas spawned a lot of good other houses of thinking.

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

There are times where I could understand that analysis, but I think there are a LOT of factors that go into how a girl looks at het relationships. What about girls and boys raised by single fathers/mothers? They don't become asexual, so the connection is hardly 100% Also, I think that point of view completely undermines the gender-model parent; if the mother tells a girl how smart and beautiful she is, you're saying it's completely useless if the father is a douche?

I can see a connection between our opposite-sex parent and how we look at the opposite gender...because that's our first interaction with the opposite gender. I think it's a matter of perspective, of understanding that not ALL men are jerks.

[meitah.livejournal.com]

Girls raised by single mothers are more likely to have more severe paternal abandonment issues because their fathers really have effectively abandoned them.

About the gender-model parent- BOTH parents effect the child's view of gender norms and self-worth, by both their absence and presence. A douche-y father has just as much affect on a daughter as a supportive mother, and vice versa.

Indeed, people do need to understand that not all men are jerks. Unfortunately, not everyone is able or willing to move past childhood issues.

[nimblnymph.livejournal.com]

"Maybe the reason the penis is so mysterious is because it's an image that girls are sequestered from on cultural reflex?"

This right here. I'd say this definitely plays into at least the fascination aspect of yaoi. Perhaps not why a homosexual relationship is more functional than a heterosexual one... but it at least explains WHY so many slash fans are women.

I agree that a LOT of it is because we're taught basically from birth that nudity is lewd and the human body is something to be hidden away. I'm not saying we all need to strip down to our skin and run around ... because that would be uncomfortable for other reasons. But we're conditioned to view the body, particularly that of the opposite sex, as a taboo. At least part of this stigma is due to Victorian ideals of propriety. That era, oddly enough, is responsible for a LOT of lingering social misbeliefs. *has been doing research*

Anyway, another part of the fascination may be because women don't HAVE penii. It's something completely foreign to us; a mystery, as you said. And who doesn't want to explore a good mystery? *leers*