Unpop Opinion right here: But I don't really see why it's a problem to hate a character because they're in the middle of your ship (this goes for the men too. I have actors I won't watch in other things because I just kinda came to hate their face. *shrug* I seriously just have a visceral reaction on the level of "Ugh *this* guy/girl. No thank you.")
Now I don't approve of some of the stuff that often goes along with it, like calling her a slut or bitch or other nonrelevant, totally derogatory names (though I don't have a problem with "s/he's boring" because...well sometimes characters really are, and that shit is subjective anyway.) It's all about being reasonable.
Overall I guess I just find it ironic and a little hypocritical to say you can't hate (or love) whichever characters you want...for any reason you want. Identification and character love just isn't something you can really control. (Otherwise everyone in the world would have great taste and ship the same people I ship OF COURSE. ;)
For me, the problem comes from, as you mentioned, the vitriol that character usually gets is on unfair merits. Additionally, I feel like if a character is truly only there to get between a pairing, and has no other purpose in the story, that's on the writers, not the character.
I get people not liking characters, and that sometimes those characters will be female characters, but when you are ALWAYS meh about the girls but you love your dudeships, I judge. I've had several conversations with long-time slashers and they'll be going on about a movie they just saw, and how amazingly ~deep and meaningful~ the relationship between the men is. I'll be like, "Oh, I absolutely loved [x female character]". I have gotten the, "Yeah...she's okay I guess." response more times than I care to count.
And they'll literally pick ANY reason to try and explain why they dislike a female character. "She's too happy." "She's just not very well-written." "I didn't find her especially interesting." "She's too aggressive." "She's too sexual." "I just don't think they have chemistry." That's all legitimate occasionally, but when you make a pattern of talking about how great the male characters are but the characters you don't care about are almost universally female, it's an issue.
Suspiciously, the female characters they like (because they do feel obligated to like some women, just so they can say it's not about a character's gender) tend to be the ones that don't interfere with a ship. Like Frigga. Or Pepper, who works just as well as Tony's friend as she does when he's his partner.
I get people not liking characters, and that sometimes those characters will be female characters, but when you are ALWAYS meh about the girls but you love your dudeships, I judge.
Yep.
Suspiciously, the female characters they like (because they do feel obligated to like some women, just so they can say it's not about a character's gender) tend to be the ones that don't interfere with a ship. Like Frigga. Or Pepper, who works just as well as Tony's friend as she does when he's his partner.
I know that this goes against fandom's spirit of ship-as-thou-wil but you know what? (And as I type this I know that you ship FrostIron but) if you are writing Tony as NOT madly, romantically in love with Pepper, you are JUST WRONG.
But we've talked about how irrational I am about Tony/Pepper before.
I know that this goes against fandom's spirit of ship-as-thou-wil but you know what? (And as I type this I know that you ship FrostIron but) if you are writing Tony as NOT madly, romantically in love with Pepper, you are JUST WRONG.
I never claimed it was right! Just that we love Pepper! Besides, Thorki hates us a lot and we can't fight a shipwar on two fronts.
Mostly I just meant it in terms of most of the frostiron people I've seen tend not to completely erase Pepper (can't speak for Stony). It's a double-sided kind of love, because she's usually there and important, but I know the only reason she doesn't get as much hate as, say, Jane is that you can rationalize her not wanting to be in a relationship with Tony and it can be done in a way that is respectful to her. She gets friendzoned by the fandom which, while decidedly better than seeing her killed off every other fic, is still problematic.
Oh, on that subject. I linked my friend Redtigress (from Tumblr and The Beta Branch) to your Zeroes & Ones fic. She doesn't normally like any ship fic, so I warned her ahead of time that you tend to write ships but that she might like your stuff anyway. She read the description and she wrote back, "THAT'S NOT SHIP FIC THAT'S HERE LET ME TAKE YOUR HEART OUT AND STOMP ON IT BEFORE I GIVE IT BACK TO YOU FIC".
Anyway, I think she liked it. And she likes your opinion on babies and Tony/Pepper.
if you are writing Tony as NOT madly, romantically in love with Pepper, you are JUST WRONG.
I never claimed it was right! Just that we love Pepper! Besides, Thorki hates us a lot and we can't fight a shipwar on two fronts.
(I really need to chill my jets on the Tony/Pepper, OTP thing, I think, just to reach MY OWN standards of fannish behavior. I'm having faint Avatar-fandom flashbacks. Ship as thou wilt, ship as thou wilt.)
linked my friend Redtigress (from Tumblr and The Beta Branch) to your Zeroes & Ones fic. She doesn't normally like any ship fic, so I warned her ahead of time that you tend to write ships but that she might like your stuff anyway. She read the description and she wrote back, "THAT'S NOT SHIP FIC THAT'S HERE LET ME TAKE YOUR HEART OUT AND STOMP ON IT BEFORE I GIVE IT BACK TO YOU FIC".
Oh, god, that is super-flattering! Tell your friend thank-you!
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timeasmymeasure
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Also your "fuck you she's awesome" tag is one of my favs. Well and now "howard stark's a+ parenting." XD
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Now I don't approve of some of the stuff that often goes along with it, like calling her a slut or bitch or other nonrelevant, totally derogatory names (though I don't have a problem with "s/he's boring" because...well sometimes characters really are, and that shit is subjective anyway.) It's all about being reasonable.
Overall I guess I just find it ironic and a little hypocritical to say you can't hate (or love) whichever characters you want...for any reason you want. Identification and character love just isn't something you can really control. (Otherwise everyone in the world would have great taste and ship the same people I ship OF COURSE. ;)
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And they'll literally pick ANY reason to try and explain why they dislike a female character. "She's too happy." "She's just not very well-written." "I didn't find her especially interesting." "She's too aggressive." "She's too sexual." "I just don't think they have chemistry." That's all legitimate occasionally, but when you make a pattern of talking about how great the male characters are but the characters you don't care about are almost universally female, it's an issue.
Suspiciously, the female characters they like (because they do feel obligated to like some women, just so they can say it's not about a character's gender) tend to be the ones that don't interfere with a ship. Like Frigga. Or Pepper, who works just as well as Tony's friend as she does when he's his partner.
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Yep.
Suspiciously, the female characters they like (because they do feel obligated to like some women, just so they can say it's not about a character's gender) tend to be the ones that don't interfere with a ship. Like Frigga. Or Pepper, who works just as well as Tony's friend as she does when he's his partner.
I know that this goes against fandom's spirit of ship-as-thou-wil but you know what? (And as I type this I know that you ship FrostIron but) if you are writing Tony as NOT madly, romantically in love with Pepper, you are JUST WRONG.
But we've talked about how irrational I am about Tony/Pepper before.
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I never claimed it was right! Just that we love Pepper!
Besides, Thorki hates us a lot and we can't fight a shipwar on two fronts.Mostly I just meant it in terms of most of the frostiron people I've seen tend not to completely erase Pepper (can't speak for Stony). It's a double-sided kind of love, because she's usually there and important, but I know the only reason she doesn't get as much hate as, say, Jane is that you can rationalize her not wanting to be in a relationship with Tony and it can be done in a way that is respectful to her. She gets friendzoned by the fandom which, while decidedly better than seeing her killed off every other fic, is still problematic.
Oh, on that subject. I linked my friend Redtigress (from Tumblr and The Beta Branch) to your Zeroes & Ones fic. She doesn't normally like any ship fic, so I warned her ahead of time that you tend to write ships but that she might like your stuff anyway. She read the description and she wrote back, "THAT'S NOT SHIP FIC THAT'S HERE LET ME TAKE YOUR HEART OUT AND STOMP ON IT BEFORE I GIVE IT BACK TO YOU FIC".
Anyway, I think she liked it. And she likes your opinion on babies and Tony/Pepper.
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I never claimed it was right! Just that we love Pepper! Besides, Thorki hates us a lot and we can't fight a shipwar on two fronts.
(I really need to chill my jets on the Tony/Pepper, OTP thing, I think, just to reach MY OWN standards of fannish behavior. I'm having faint Avatar-fandom flashbacks. Ship as thou wilt, ship as thou wilt.)
linked my friend Redtigress (from Tumblr and The Beta Branch) to your Zeroes & Ones fic. She doesn't normally like any ship fic, so I warned her ahead of time that you tend to write ships but that she might like your stuff anyway. She read the description and she wrote back, "THAT'S NOT SHIP FIC THAT'S HERE LET ME TAKE YOUR HEART OUT AND STOMP ON IT BEFORE I GIVE IT BACK TO YOU FIC".
Oh, god, that is super-flattering! Tell your friend thank-you!
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Gotta love the synergy of that username, too - Barda really would punch the people pulling this crap right in the heart.
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