No Homo (Subtext Is Not Representation)

[redbrunja]

So, a couple of things showed up at the same time in my fannish life that I want to talk about. First, I learned about Ginnifer Goodwin's comment that Swan Queen was never going to happen because Once Upon A Time is a "family show", I was listening to femmeslash for fans show on Subtext 101,

and then I read this article, Why Embracing Slash Is Good For Everybody.

Let me bottom line it.

SUBTEXT IS NOT FUCKING REPRESENTATION.

ABC is not going to write Swan Queen (or ANY homosexual romance in their show about true love and blood family) because they are not going to risk offending viewers.

RDJ's Sherlock Holmes was never going to make out with John Watson because the studio isn't going to risk offending viewers.

Trust me, studios are already "embracing slash" in their 100% mercenary way, which is by showing deep, complex, meaningful and nuanced relationships between TWO WHITE DUDES without ever having to commit to actually writing homosexual characters.

That's what all those buddy cop shows and bromance movies are all about.

And the result of this, the part that really HITS ME WHERE I LIVE, is that "embracing slash" MEANS THROWING THE FUCKING FEMALE CHARACTERS THAT I LOVE UNDER THE BUS.

Do you know what it looks like when a show feeds the slashers? It looks like fucking Supernatural, where every goddamn awesome good/neutral/evil lady winds up dead.

The reason that there is not a gay Avenger is because MARVEL STUDIOS DIDN'T HAVE THE BALLS TO WRITE ANY OF THE AVENGERS AS GAY.

DO YOU KNOW WHY THERE ISN'T A BLACK WIDOW MOVIE ALREADY IN PRE-PRODUCTION? BECAUSE HOLLYWOOD DOESN'T THINK A WOMAN CAN HEADLINE A MOVIE.

And none of that is fucking okay.

The mainstream media is throwing scraps of representation at the audience and some people are pretending that it's enough. It's fucking not, and honestly, to me personally, it feels like a slap in the face.

Stop pretending to be inclusive of homosexuality and fucking be inclusive of homosexuality.

Realize that audiences can handle and fucking love movies with female/poc/homosexual (or all of the above) leads and film them.

Comments

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Ugh. The whole "gay fans aren't hurting anyone so just let them have their slash" tone to that article is really gross. Like, we can have our own happy little straight people land and they will go away if we just "allow" them to use their own freaking imaginations?

And yes, I agree that bromance is getting way overdone and I would like to see a movie that has more than one lady at a time in it.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

"gay fans aren't hurting anyone so just let them have their slash" tone to that article is really gross. Like, we can have our own happy little straight people land and they will go away if we just "allow" them to use their own freaking imaginations?

Pretty much.

Like, I'm thrilled that people are reacting positively to fandom, but reacting positively to fandom is NOT the same thing as writing progressive stories.

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

I do think there's something to be said for queer people reclaiming a part of culture/subculture where they feel represented and comfortable. Even if it has its roots in homophobia/queerbaiting, queer people should be allowed to re-appropriate the imagery of their oppression without being shamed for it. However, giving queer people this kind of, "Subtext is ENOUGH isn't it? Why do you need any more than that?" spiel is extremely disrespectful. Just because people find representation despite your bullshit writing doesn't mean your writing doesn't need to not be bullshit.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

I absolutely think people should be able to write and enjoy slash, and I don't have a problem with bromance in and of itself. I just objected to the "I guess we'll let you have your slash" tone of the article. Also I agree with redbrunja that bromance and slash seem to be way more prevalent than and often happen to the exclusion of narratives that support female characters.

And yes, the argument they were making that slash is cool because it gives gay people what they want but will never get--because we totes aren't going to get a gay Avenger, amirite?--is terrible. Not to mention it doesn't hold water. We've got an Asian lady Watson and a trans* Ms. Hudson and people are watching the heck out of that show....

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

the argument they were making that slash is cool because it gives gay people what they want but will never get--because we totes aren't going to get a gay Avenger, amirite?--is terrible.

I really wanted to slap somebody for that dammed tone they had about it.

Not to mention it doesn't hold water. We've got an Asian lady Watson and a trans* Ms. Hudson and people are watching the heck out of that show....

Exactly. And if they're not going to write homosexual characters because they don't want to risk losing money, just fucking SAY that. Don't pretend like you're doing something progressive or edgy.

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

Agreed 100%. What I was trying to say is that while it is the prerogative of queer people to find representation in the subculture, it's not enough, and telling marginalized groups they don't deserve more is a hell of a copout.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Yes to both. *nods*

(and Karen Gillan ♥)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I do think there's something to be said for queer people reclaiming a part of culture/subculture where they feel represented and comfortable. Even if it has its roots in homophobia/queerbaiting

I am all for reclaiming media and writing what you'd LIKE to see, but my problem is I feel like people started slashing, creators discovered the slash, and then went 'we'll bait you, isn't that enough?'

Just because people find representation despite your bullshit writing doesn't mean your writing doesn't need to not be bullshit.

10000x this.

[qualapec.livejournal.com]

I am all for reclaiming media and writing what you'd LIKE to see, but my problem is I feel like people started slashing, creators discovered the slash, and then went 'we'll bait you, isn't that enough?'

Oh definitely, and it sucks doubly because then it becomes a homophobic symbol based around something that queer people find some scrap of representation in.

/ And honestly, I'm not even talking about straight girls shipping slash, since that's its own mess of misogyny and appropriation of queer symbols that can have way more of an impact than "what you like and don't like", and I say that as a straight slash shipper. I mostly just wanted to address that there are queer people who find representation in fandom despite shitty source material and despite straight slash shippers stomping all over their sexuality. However, there are also queer people (queer women especially) that don't feel the slightest bit represented by fandom because of the fixation on straight white dudes. While I do think it has value in discussions about female sexuality, whether it's really representation is iffy at best, and I think a discussion that queer people should be given the floor on.

Basically there are huge existing problems and queerbaiting only compounds them.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I mostly just wanted to address that there are queer people who find representation in fandom despite shitty source material and despite straight slash shippers stomping all over their sexuality. However, there are also queer people (queer women especially) that don't feel the slightest bit represented by fandom because of the fixation on straight white dudes.

Exactly. And interestingly enough, in my subjective and non scientific observation, I've noticed a lot of queer ladies who ship femmeslash, which is the corner of fandom that gets the LEAST amount of attention.