I'm So Tired Of Being Tired

[redbrunja]

I swear, right now, I want to quit fandom.

No, there is nothing hugely dramatic prompting this. I am just so, so weary of the ingrained sexism and the fandom drama and the female character hate and the shipping wars.

I feel like declaring that after July, I'm going to go back to western tv and liveaction fandoms, because when two very different mangakas annoy me in exactly the same way in one fucking evening, and my own over-investment in a pairing + spoilers + the damn fandom itself is threatening to ruin the show that ruined me for anime....

Something is very wrong here.

(And then I remember that my previous happy skippy live action comedy show is killing my love, as is my current sci-fi drama, my last sci-fi drama betrayed me horribly, and my last girl-centric show was torturous near the end, and I realize I'm going to need to go back to reading books and give myself time to let the wounds heal.)

Comments

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Oh, where do I start...

A) What mangakas did what where? I have a deep suspicion we share at least one.

B) This is why I try to avoid fandoms. And, frankly, fandoms shipping wars and the way it takes it out of female characters is a large part of WHY I have a lot of the opinions on fanon that I do. I'd rather sit in my corner and squee at the sane ones I grabbed as they wandered by than deal with the drama. When I do pay attention to fandoms, i just go to my ranty place.

C) What show ruined you for anime, and what's it doing to you?

D) Any chance on a rundown of the shows mentioned(I'm assuming BSG is the scifi drama that betrayed you horribly)?

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

A.) We do. And I'll be detailing this in the review posts that I'm writing tonight.

B.) In the normal run of things, I love fandom. Which is why I can get so hurt by it.

C.) Avatar. Need I say more?

D.) How I Met Your Mother is slowly killing my love (longer post once I finally finish the third season), current sci-fi drama is Farscape, last sci-fi drama is BSG, girlcentric drama was Alias.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I realized it was Avatar right after I commented, but I was too busy going to bed to correct myself.

I've only seen one season of Farscape(I plan to watch the next) but I do know a couple people with even stronger feminist sensibilities than us who love it to pieces.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

WIth farscape, the feminist sensabilities are not the real problem. Do you care about spoilers? In short, there are two plotlines going on at once point, and the plotline with the hero SUCKS SO HARDCORE and the plotline with the heroine is UNMITIGATED AWESOME and they're about to join up, and we're headdesking because of choices the writers made/are making.

SPOILERS BELOW:









Due to sci-fi things happening, there were two version of the hero existing. Both the same character, except due to the situation, the hero with the heroine was AWESOME and the hero not with the heroine was A WHINY, SELFISH, SELF-ABSORBED ASS WHO WE HATED AND COULD NEVER DESERVE THE HEROINE and the flawed but awesome hero was the one who got killed off.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

*skips spoilers*

I have heard of the "John vs John over Aeryn" thing before.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

It's awful. And not just because right where we are, as soon as you know which plotline you're in, you know if you're going to have an awesome, awesome episode or spend forty minutes wishing it was over.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Ah. I think most of my friends were most concerned that Aeryn end up with A John, not so much which John. Kind of like how a lot of Tsubasa fans mostly just care that Sakura end up with a Syaoran, not which (whereas, while both Syaorans are awesome in very different ways, I have very specific ideas about that.)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

No! Nobody deserves B John! You have A plot John, and another awesome character who loves Aeryn... there is no reason she should be with B John who sucks.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Random rec: Badass Sakura fanart (http://doxnbox.deviantart.com/art/You-Took-Away-A-Part-of-Me-11708094), because the fans will rise up even when the mangaka is a sexist hack. (2004, if that matters)


I am going into books lately, and I'm nearing the run of Discworld. Only 5 books left! I don't know what I'll do when that series is over. It's like there will be no more literary happiness. It's like how I felt after I watched The Return of the King, and I walked out the theater doors, and I knew that this was it. After the DVD was released there would be no more. Next Christmas I wouldn't have any more hobbits and wizards and swordfights and warrior princesses and magic rings to give me that fan joy as a year-end present. It was over.



I'm kind of hunting for a new live action fandom to get into, since I've been putting off watching the new season of Doctor Who out of fear, and BSG is at this point mostly a soda-drinking game for me (I haven't seen its fourth season either), and I have no other tv shows I religiously love.

I need another Farscape, or X Files, or West Wing, or something. I can't wait until Dollhouse next year... I have hopes.

[fani.livejournal.com]

Don't you still have The Truth, Monstrous Regiment, Going Postal, Thud!, Making Money, Wee Free Men, A Hat Full of Sky and Wintersmith to read? Nation is also coming out in the Fall (you lucky Americans, you'll get it first!)

I find Discworld has a high re-read quality and you'll find stuff that you miss first time reading so you can always re-read.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

The Truth is done. . Only 5 books left!

[fani.livejournal.com]

What did you think of the Truth ?

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I liked it. It's about middle on my personal scale-- all around entertaining, with some good bits and weak bits. I don't think the central conspiracy conflict was as strong as some of the other conspiracy plotlines, and the villains were weaker when compared to more memorable villains, but it was a joy to watch the development of DeWorde and the other reporters as the paper got bigger. Also, lots and lots of in-jokes that I got in that one. TP went crazy with the media references, which were fun to read.

My favorite was the entire discussion referencing to the Seattle Underground, which I'm pretty 98% of the people who read the book won't get. I would never have gotten it if it weren't for a confluence of specific life circumstances and tourism.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Thank you! That's an awesome fanart. You were the one who gave me the link to that other awesome one, with Sakura and the huge, complex ax, right?

*nods*

Same here. And I'm so excited for Dollhouse - I really can't wait.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Ax? no, but I'd love to see it.

books

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

re: book fandoms in a later paragraph

Except for Harry Potter (and some minor Discworld fanart), I don't do fandoms for books. Even if I could, the fandoms are never there for the books I want. So it just almost never happens for me.

Books are like a safe zone. The most is that I maybe read a couple of internet or professional reviews of the novels. I often write my own review of books, but that just as often goes completely uncommented on.

Re: books

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yes. That is why I'm talking about going back to them, because at most, book reviews will get, like, two people commenting.

And then I'll whine (well, I do now) about not having a fandom for something that should have a fandom, but it will be a different aggravation.

(And it's a doomed choice anyway, as you'll see if you read my soon to be most recent post.)

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Here it is:

http://rozefire.deviantart.com/art/Shannaro-35092028

I adore her posture, and the expression on her face.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

BADASS!

Her expression (and overall facial design) really stand out as original but at the same time fitting to the series...but it's the little heart next to her name on the Giant Ax that makes it.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Yes.

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

re: sexism and female-character hate,

The only place where I expose myself to that in fandom is The Pit. Otherwise I stick to my flist and I am very proud of the people I have added there for being reasonable, intelligent, forward-minded folk who will rip a sexist paragraph seven ways to Wednesday.

I am part of over 100 communities but only keep a few on my flist, so I skip a lot of general fandom crap. I've learned to insulate myself for self-preservation.

I have found that once you're in fandom, fandom's in you. Even if you give up the internet side of it, you end up recreating those conversations and discussions with friends or family members, wanting to go into intense detail about why such and such is a symbol or a parallel in the film or in the book and what X means and why Y is against X and isn't it so FASCINATING? And they're like... "What? You're thinking too hard about this."

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem with having the awesome flist I do, is that even if I don't find it myself, they'll find stuff, so I'll get it second hand.

Oh, part of what makes this post a totally rail against fate is that I was fandoming before I found fandom, which basically means I'm fucked. And I already drive my mother insane enough with the conversations we have.

[nephthysmoon.livejournal.com]

But then there is Book!Fandom, which I blame my involvement for my involvement in fandom. Face it, if you're inclined towards fandoms, it will be difficult to find something to do that has no fandom - and do you really want to get into something (a book, TV show or whatever) that is so bad that you want nothing to do with its fandom because you don't like it enough?

Actually, in all seriousness, I know what you mean.

The only fandom I have that regularly pisses me off is the Avatar fandom, and I have to remind myself that being about 10 to 12 years older than the average fan has a lot to do with that. The best thing I can think of for avoiding fandoms is stick to the people you already know in it that aren't driving you nuts.

I don't belong to boards for most of my fandoms (dotmoon is multi-fandom, after all, and I can discuss nearly anything I want to there) because of that. I try to avoid most communities on LJ unless I know the maintainer or the primary focus is on fanfic/fanart. For me, that is the only way to keep myself sane in an increasingly annoying world of fandom.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, I was fandoming before I knew what fandoms were, which basically means I'm fucked now.

And I have a lot of fandom control techniques right now, it's just... it's hard when both the fandom and the canon are annoying you.

As for Avatar fandom: word. There is a reason I'm not going to any of the main comms right now.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

I already am. Right now, it's actually more of the works themselves, and then the fandom is just the salt in the wound.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Fandom can really suck sometimes.

But if it gets you into writing Fables fic, I fully support the decision. The fandom needs writers who have read more than three issues (#1, #10, and #27 by my guess, in a recent case . . .).

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

To be honest, at this point, Fables fails my 'feminist sensibilities' test.

And are those the most Bigby/Snow shipper issues without any of the relating background?

[studentrobin.livejournal.com]

Sorry to interject, but I'm curious, what exactly is your feminist sensibilities test?


..ignore the original, misspelled comment.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Where I read something, and the gender representation doesn't immediately piss me off/give me tummy ache AND I don't finish reading and then come back later going, 'you know, that gender representation was really traditional and full of sterotypes.'

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Off the top of my head, I think they're the only ones where a person could get the vaguest idea that she's a meek miss who needs her man(#10 is after she wakes up from her coma, #27 should be after she gives birth, #1 is, of course where we're meeting the characters.)

*goes off mumbling about how wanting and needing your man are different things and being happy you have him doesn't mean you weren't just fine without him*

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

#27 was the issue at the end of March of the Wooden Soldiers where Snow ran out and gave Bigby a hug. Not only did they portray Snow as meek, they portrayed Snow and Bigby's relationship this early on as being . . . well, schmoopy.

*sigh* They love each other. And as for need . . . I suppose you could say that Snow needs Bigby. But Bigby needs Snow just as much, if not more. They support each other, each makes the other stronger, makes them want to be a better person.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

By "need" I meant "be able to function and feel like a complete person" which seems to be fandoms opinions of female characters, except for when they're making justfications for pushing them aside for slash.

(He showed up and won her battle for her! She is allowed to have a sentimental, schmoopy moment! Also, she was pregnant! And leading her side in a war! And he was gone a long time! she can be schmoopy! It's the closest you can get to "tongue down the throat midbattle means 'I love you'" when one of you is a wolf!)

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

*sigh* It was an awesome, schmoopworthy moment that both characters totally earned. But the fic that I'm going WTF over is one that seemed to only see that single schmoopy moment and assumed that their entire relationship was like that, and entirely ignored Snow's many well-crafted neuroses and . . . well, pretty much everything in Storybook Love.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

No, those are just the issues that the author in question seemed to have read. Seriously. They got that Snow was in the hospital after being shot in the head, they got that Snow was pregnant with Bigby's offspring, but that was it. The part where they mentioned that it was Red Riding Hood that shot her in the head is a rather . . . distinct example of this.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Also, regarding Fables sucking with regard to feminist sensibilities . . . Fables will, in general, veer between two points. The first is "AWESOME." The second is "Punch Bill Willingham in the Face/Set Him On Fire."

Fic is to be written about the first in order to navigate around the second.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Fables will, in general, veer between two points. The first is "AWESOME." The second is "Punch Bill Willingham in the Face/Set Him On Fire."

I have too many shows that do that to me. I"m staring to get mental whiplash. It sucks.

[fairest1.livejournal.com]

Indeed it does. But once you've moved over to a journal based around a specific fandom, it's hard to really leave it. The good bits cling to your fandom-heart, too many people know you and would track you down and beg you to come back if you left, the authors give you admin abilities on the official message board . . . it reaches a point that you realize you're stuck in the fandom until it dies for good.

So I'll continue to love Snow/Bigby and continue to work on fics where Snow kicks twenty kinds of ass and Bigby loves her for it.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

You poor girl.